Christine the Lioness (3118)
Christopher the Pyro (1985)
ProphetJoe the Irreverent (1216)
Trouble the Pirate (592)
Keith the Director (573)
Mara the Peacemaker (527)
eric the Lil' Devil (351)
AJ the Zen Master (305)
Ben the Kingpin (213)
Haas the Addict (187)
Christine 2 the Mercenary (131) Lei the Mercenary (124) Katie the Mercenary (115)
Ben2 the Soldier (56)
Chad the Virgin stated
Wow. I’m a single guy with no kids and my parents are still happily married. I had no idea this is what I would have had to go through as a child had my parents gotten divorced like so many of my peer’s parents did, but more importantly, it will make me think long and hard about the woman I have children with, if and when that happens. While mothers may be fueling the system, it does no good to point fingers, which is why I’d agree more with blaming fathers for not organizing and fighting this. We’re clearly capable of changing the system as men, but why not as fathers? Taking responsibility seems much more powerful than placing blame elsewhere.
Christine the Lioness pontificated
This article made me laugh it’s so biased. Spoken like a true “victim” who doesn’t have the balls to get out and make a difference. So women have been reduced to being so stupid they are manipulated into getting divorces by lawyers and those who will profit? Wow. Whoever wrote this must not think highly of women. My parents are divorced, I have friends who are divorced and I can assure you divorce is one of the most painful things people go through. It affects them and their relationships for the rest of their lives.
And what about all these men who father children then skip out on the woman, leaving her to find a way to support herself and her kids? What about all the “dads” in jail for not paying child support? What about all the deadbeat dads who are still out there and the woman gives up trying to get the money from him because every time she garnishes his wages, he changes jobs so he doesn’t have to pay? What about the men who are fathering children by two and three different women?
I agree that children suffer in a divorce– but they aren’t the only ones. My mother did everything she could to try to work her marriage out with my dad– went to counseling (continued by herself after he stopped showing up), etc.– and there was nothing she could do. My dad is now engaged to his soon-to-be wife #4.
I don’t think most women want to take their children away from the kids’ fathers if the father is fit to take care of them. Most mothers truly love their children. I don’t see a whole lot of divorced dads stepping up and trying to get custody of their kids– they’re the ones who want to be “Disneyland Dads” taking the kids every other weekend and then leaving the real child-raising day-to-day to the mother.
But I think it’s good that some men are making a big deal out of a system that they feel is unfair. Any inequity in society whether it’s directed at a man or a woman, is an inequity. There are lots of them… Some women are fighting for equal pay, some men are fighting for equal parental rights. I hope both groups ultimately get what they want because it will only make the world a better place.
I just found that particular article (not the subject itself) to sound like the product of a whiny finger-pointing man who is pretty bitter at women in general. I’ve seen articles written by men that are much more logical, persuasive, and less angry… and seem to get the point across better.
For me personally, I am 33 and have never been married– or obviously divorced– unlike a lot of people I know who got married young– without really considering they were choosing someone to spend the rest of their life with– and are now divorced by the time they’re 30. I take marriage very seriously. When I have a child, I’ll take being a parent very seriously. I’m not saying that people shouldn’t get divorced– there are certain times when I believe that is best– but I think people get into marriages knowing if they don’t like it, or if they meet someone they like better, they’ll just get divorced. And that’s very selfish both to the person they’re marrying and to the kids born into that situation.
Christine2 the Virgin mentioned
Spoken like a true defense attorney. wow. There are so many points of contradiction that I don’t even have time to explain. Good thing I’m NOT a prosecutor….
Christine2 the Virgin asserted
Now that I just read Christine’s comment, I would like to say just for Devil’s Advocate, my ex step-father raised me after my mom wanted divorce for the second time, and I still have a closer relationship to him. Anyway, I think both sides are a little to the extreme, I think both of you are failing to look at marriage as an institution being trivialized because there are new designer gowns coming out this year, and the men finally have a job that pays for the diamond, etc. As far as child support, it might be biased, but you Break it, you Buy it.
Christine the Lioness got all philosophical
Christine2… I have no freaking idea what you just said. The point is… it doesn’t matter if your stepdad raised you or your mom did, or you were raised by wolves. There are a lot of factors playing into the problem, there is a system that is failing some dads who want custody, and yet no system is perfect. There are noble men, and shitty ones, there are great women and appalling ones. We can’t change a whole system for a few exceptions, and yet we shouldn’t be satisfied with a system we have proof is failing some people.
Christopher the Pyro added
After lengthy discussion on this with Christine, I have come to the conclusion, there are exceptions to all rules, while I feel the system could be more fair to all parties, especially the Children… the fact is I’m just bitter because I’m paying so much money to my baby moma’s all over the country.
Joseph the Virgin thought this
The nail has been hitten on the head, I’m a single dad w/ coustody of my daughter and beleive me when I say it took the act of involving very one from senators, congress, and even the President. to get coustody.
Because the system is so byess all factual matters are deamed inconclusive and
nonrelivent,. Even with pictures medical documentation of bruises and neglect to the child. CPS’s reply after they was subpoena to appear w/records their reply was allthough the child was living with the mother and the pictures and medical
documentaion showed and suggested that the child was being abused and neglected we did not investigate because we felt that he was trying to take the child from the mother.and why is it that women can claim they are disable without no documentation and not be penalized and still five years later
the AG”S office won’t do a thing except stereo type and chastize me why aint you making the payment? read dummy’s I have coustody oops I guess they can’t
I’m closing for now but if you wish to hear the rest of the storie contact me.
I had enjoy your format thank you. Joseph.
Christopher the Pyro pontificated
It might have also been your exceptionally bad English and spelling.. I will consider that your just very upset so you can’t type… but I might be being too generous.
Christine the Lioness got all philosophical
I don’t care about Joseph’s spelling… honestly, if I cared about spelling would I be dating Christopher? Doubtful… but I will say that you’re welcome to tell the rest of your story here if you’d like. It sounds like you do now have custody of your child and things are all okay… right?
Christopher the Pyro commented
This is a new emotion.. sympathy… ?
Christine the Lioness commented
It’s not new… Christopher doesn’t see it often… but then again, he doesn’t do much to deserve sympathy either.
Linda the Virgin scribbled
I sympathize with the situation described in the article. My husband has to fight every summer to get his summer visitation. Every summer the judge threatens to take custody away from the mother. Every summer it is just a threat. And every summer, she petitions for more support.
My husband makes very little money for Los Angeles and has excessive school loans to pay off that he racked up in part to pay for living expenses, including child care expenses, with his ex-wife. His ex-wife was divorced once before him and once after him. She also chooses to work nights, dumping her two boys, one from the first marriage and one from the second with my husband’s parents because she does not want to allow my husband to see her son. Plus she “models” on the weekends, spending even less time with her neglected kids. She never cuts their nails and they usually smell.
She also has taken two vacations this year, while my husband and I are struggling to figure out how to pay for summer camp. Plus, she has 2 cars (my husband and I share one) and spends a lot of money on her appearance (she had a boob job and a nose job and has her nails done weekly). I don’t mind that my husband has to pay support, but I think it is grossly unfair that he pays far more than she uses on his son (we buy him clothes because he is always dressed in smelly old, bad-fitting things and we pay for child care). She does not even cash her support checks on a regular basis, showing that she does not need them for monthly expenses (she will cash 2 or 3 together).
For all of this, my husband gets to see his son 63 days out of the year. The situation seems grossly unfair from my point of view. Maybe I am missing something…
Christine the Lioness thought this
I agree that situation is unfair, but for every situation like your’s, Linda, I am sure I could find a situation where the dad left the mom for someone else, making her a single mother who suddenly has to work after years of not working because she was raising the kids, does everything he can to try to get out of paying child support including getting a high priced lawyer to take her back to court constantly until she gets so far in debt with legal bills she can’t do it anymore, even though he doesn’t want to see the kids that much because his new wife isn’t really fond of them, he and his new wife take 4 vacations a year and both drive Lexuses while the mom continues to drive the station wagon she’s had for years, and when it comes time to pay for anything for the kids that would be additional to child support– like braces for their teeth, etc., he refuses. The situation I just described was my ex-boyfriend’s situation when he was growing up. His father was a doctor who had his own clinic and several doctors working for him in a shi-shi area of town and his mom was a school teacher– two very different income levels. So the system failed her in the same way.
Christopher the Pyro hunt n' pecked this
Well not that the guy doing it to a woman is ok and he should certainly pay child support but just because he has built a good life through hard work with his new wife doesn’t mean his old wife deserves anything from him. Child support should go to the child not the X. If a person goes on to become a billionaire 10 years after their first marriage the first wife or husband is not entitled to anything.
Christine the Lioness remarked
In the case of my ex, she worked to put him through med school (they met in college and he continued to go to school after they got married). The thing about marriage is that it’s a partnership… if a woman stops working and no longer advances in her career because she and her husband have decided she’ll stay home and raise the kids while he works, and then he decides after he’s got a great career that he’s going to leave her, he does owe her something. The decision to put her behind other people who would be making more money by the time they are the age she is, was made because she thought she could count on him as her partner. And vice versa if the man makes sacrifices. The thing is… a marriage won’t work if no one wants to compromise, but it’s not fair for the person who compromised to get fucked in the ass for those sacrifices just because someone decided he wanted to date someone 15 years younger than his wife. It’s what you’re signing on for when you get married. Typically, it is the woman who gives up a career to stay home with the kids although some men do it too. And in the case of my ex’s mom and dad, she worked full time to support them while he continued school, so she was very much a part of his success later on down the road. Alimony exists for a reason, as does child support. I’m sure some people who get divorced would love to think they have no obligation to that person afterward, but they do. By deciding to marry that person, and especially if you have kids with them, you’ve agreed that the decisions you make are for you as a couple, not as individuals anymore. Once one person decides it’s only about the individual again, you do owe that person for the sacrifices they made for the couple.
Christopher the Pyro added
I don’t agree. He really doesn’t owe her anything, if he is deciding to leave her there is probably a reason, and if the reverse is true and he put her through med school put his life on hold, ect, ect I don’t think she owes him anything either.
I really don’t agree with this success down the road idea, the fact that they had to get divorced means that should could have been a huge deterant for years in his success, it’s really not this simple formula. It’s way better for people not to owe each other anything and to set up situations where both can take care of themselves regardless of what happens with the relationship.
Christine the Lioness scribbled
If you’re going to go into a marriage with the attitude that you need to put your own interests above the interest of the couple should the choice arise, you’ve pretty much set yourself up for divorce before you ever say “I do.” And we wonder why the divorce rate is so high in this country…
Shelley the Virgin pontificated
I was a single mother for years and balked at the severity of the child maintence program. They went after my ex with claws bared and threats spewing. I told them to stop, the man stalked me for years, why the hell would I want an organization like that go after him so viciously to make him even angrier? He pays me now every month, without their interference but that isn’t even my story and I realize that isn’t the case for many women. Now I am with a man who has three children with another woman. He is the main provider for our three children and has been struggling for the past two years with one crappy job after the other. We have barely ( and i mean barely) been surviving ourselves but today, the bloody bastards seized his entire cheque, froze his passport and will not allow him to renew his drivers licence - how the hell is he supposed to work? I would not have a problem with this as much if they had at least left enough to pay our rent but everything? What book, what law says that my children should live on the streets so that others can live in extravegance! His ex refuses to acknowledge the court order that he be able to see his children on a regular basis, she won’t let him phone them and sends his letters back. She stated quite clearly to me that he would see his kids again over her dead body and that if he persued it she woudl uproot them to a different city just to keep them away from him. When I asked her why it was simply because she hated him. Funny how she has no problem acknowledging the same court order stating how much he has to pay her each month. The child maintenance program was born of good intentions but when you are dehumanizing men, forcing other children into poverty and destroying more families in the process, I ask you - where have those intentions gone?
Christine the Lioness mentioned
I am not very familiar with the Canadian child maintenance system, so I can only speak from the perspective of what is going on in the U.S. However… I understand your issue, Shelley, particularly how can he make the money to pay the child support when he can’t drive… yes, that seems like a very flawed system. But my question to you is… if the man you are with is the main provider for your children (which aren’t even his own), why should your children be more important than the children he fathered? Because he’s now decided to be with you? The truth is… his FIRST responsibility comes to the children he fathered with the other woman. Now if he’s overpaying for their support, that’s another issue that should certainly be addressed. But why are you expecting him to pay for yours? If your children are going into poverty, that problem belongs to YOU and the FATHER of your children, not the man you are with now. If you see your children going into poverty because a man who isn’t even their father is having trouble supporting them, why don’t YOU do something to help resolve that situation for your children instead of relying on his income which is rightly being used to support the children he brought into the world.
I may sound more critical than I intend to, and from what you’ve said, it certainly sounds that his ex has some deep issues of her own.
You know, it’s interesting how in another thread on another post, people were talking about how biological parents should always have the rights to their kids because they’re the ones who know what’s best for them and the gov’t shouldn’t step in and take children away because who is the gov’t to say they can raise kids better than the biological parents can… yet, here is yet another story of a person using her children to get back at an ex, which is not in teh children’s best interest. And yet, people are still arguing that parents will always do what’s best for their kids. That is clearly not the case. Sorry… a little off topic, but it reminded me of that.
Again, Shelley, not trying to be accusatory, but I am interested in where you think your children would be entitled to something from this man that his own children aren’t.
Eddie the Virgin stated
I have only one thing to say to young men today;do not have children. This is the best advice to keep them from going through 18 years of pure hell if something happens to their marriage. I lost my son in court and I can tell you from first hand experience that it is a living hell from that day forward. I don’t believe any man should just hand over a check to a woman. I don’t believe any man should have his child lawfully taken away. I don’t even know what gives the legal system the right to take a mans child from him in the first place. I don’t believe in calling any man a dead beat dad, because he didn’t ask for his child to be stripped out from under him in the first place. Unfortunately no matter how good a life I could have gave my son, I couldn’t have got custody no matter what. So with that said, you can see why I do not believe in our legal system at all. And as far as what the article at the top of this page says, it is 100% true all the way. If you haven’t lived it, then don’t even try to comment on this or tell me you know what its like, because you have no idea what it is like to have this happen to you. My advice for all young men coming up in this world is don’t give them the pleasure of ruining your life, just don’t have kids period!
Linda the Virgin pontificated
I hate to say it, but Eddie has a point. On the other hand, no one
should have a child when he or she is in a rocky/tenuous relationship
with another. But the problem is that the courts presume that the
mother should get custody. In my husbands case, he was the primary
care giver. He stayed at home with his son while his ex-wife commuted
1 hour each way to work. He partially choose his career because he
could work from home; he is an editor / writer. The court did not
care; the court assumed that the mother was the primary care giver and
awarded her custody. The lawyer told my husband that he did not have a
chance even with proof that he was the primary caregiver because he
did not earn enough income on his own to adequately support his
son–but that was because of the arrangements he had with his ex about
the division of work in their household. No lawyer would tell a
stay-at-home mom to not fight for custody because she cannot show that
she has the income to support her child alone. The double standard in
some states (some states have worked hard to get rid of such nonsense)
is one of the reasons father’s lose faith in the system and stop
fighting.
Eddie, don’t stop fighting for custody. To have a case, you must show
a substantial change in circumstances–this can be that the child has
gotten older in addition to evidence that the mother has done
something drastic such as moved or neglected the children or a series
of small recurring events such as denial of telephone visitation. In
some states, the courts allow evidence of parental alienation syndrome
to show that custody should be changed. In many states, once the child
is 12 or so, the court will give great weight to the child’s
preference.
Good luck.
Christine the Lioness stated
There are a lot of problems here. One being that the courts still do have a somewhat antequated (and honestly sexist) belief that women are better care-givers than men. Two, I’ve also seen situations where courts are so loaded down with cases, the judge doesn’t really give the amount of time he/she should to looking over the evidence and cursory decisions are made, when a decision made in a few hours of glancing over documents can affect the lives of people forever. But with U.S. divorces reaching almost 70% now… I guess that’s to be expected. Three… I realize that divorces are necessary and do happen… but don’t you think some of this could be avoided by NOT getting divorced? If more people took their marriages seriously, didn’t cheat, didn’t walk out, and actually committed to being with the other person forever instead of bailing at the first sign of rough water, we’ have a lot less custody issues and a lot fewer parents using their children as pawns in divorce games. And if people put a little more thought into getting married in the first place, instead of getting married and just saying to themselves “Well, if it doesn’t work out, I’ll just get divorced,” then more people would marry when they are ready to be husbands/wives/fathers/mothers and marriages would last longer.
I realize that there are situations where people really are better off getting divorced from their partner, and if that’s the case, then more power to them. But with a divorce rate approaching 3/4 of marriages… and many people married and divorced multiple times… I think this problem could be helped if Americans started to think about marriage a little bit differently than they are now.
To Eddie… if he really does want custody of his child, then I agree… don’t stop fighting for it. Even if it’s an uphill battle simply because you’re a man, don’t get discouraged or give up. It’s the same thing I tell female friends who are faced with some sort of gender-related obstacle. Life isn’t fair, but in the end, your child will only benefit from you trying to be as involved in his/her life as much as possible.
Chastity the Virgin spake, and sayeth
I am a mother of three and I live with my boyfriend whom has kids with with his ex wife. I am recieving child support from my youngest 2s dad. My oldest son does not recieve. I am going to court for the second time to have him indicted on this case. He owes a whoopin 26,000 dollars. He has been to jail and prison which he will be going to again. I have grew up with this man and hate to see it but men/women have to pay their support whether or not you want to. My boyfriend went 3 mos without a job and had his license takin away. He had never been late on a pymnt or ever stopped paying until he got sick. He went right back to work and started to pay agai. They made him pay a reinstatement fee. Why the hell are they not doing this to the men that are so far behind they will never catch up. I think that men who do not pay should be made in a legal court to sign off rights. Non payment of child support is child abuse. What do the rest of you think…sign off rights or prison. Taxpayers,we pay 6-8 dollars a day for inmates.How much do we pay in welfare benefits to these single mothers who are not recievingb their support.
Christine the Lioness commented
Just signing off rights isn’t a substitute for paying child support though. I’m sure there are plenty of men who would happily sign off rights to seeing their children if it would get them out of paying support. That doesn’t help the custodial parent or the child, and it basically allows them to be unaccountable for creating the child to begin with.
I don’t know why some men are being stuck with all these fees because they fall behind by a few months and others are getting away with not paying until they owe thousands of dollars. I don’t understand the system.
Either way… its not the taxpayers’ responsibility to support a deadbeat parent in prison, nor is it their responsibility to support a child because the biologicial parents won’t.
A lot of this could be prevented– not all, but a significant amount– by deciding only to have children when you can bring them into a stable environment in a committed relationship. Honestly, I can understand one divorce and the issues that arise, but two divorces, multiple kids from different fathers… why? Same goes for the men… if you have more than one ‘babymama’ out there– even if you are being responsible and paying your child support, or do have custody of the child yourself and the mother is the one paying you… why? Why? Why?
It just seems to me that a 25 cent condom could save a lot of people a lot of grief.
Chastity the Virgin spake, and sayeth
Sometimes as a teenager you do make mistakes that you are not proud of, I was with my oldest son’s father till i was 18 then i met my husband who I had 2 kids with and remained with him until last year. I am not ashamed to have 2 different fathers in my life. I am a good parent, that is all that matters to me. No,it is not the taxpayers responsibility to pay for these inmates,but it is happening. As a good citizen,a taxpayer and a mother of three children I support my children without the help of anyone else. To judge a person because of the amount of “babydaddy” they have in their lives is wrong. Maybe their are alot of ppl out there that need 25 cent condoms but my situation was not one of them. THANK YOU!! Simple answer was all it could have taken. I am on the tax payers side honey,not the discriminating side.
Good luck with all your judgmental remarks. I hope it don’t bite you in the ass.
Mara the Peacemaker said this
One, requiring a father to extinguish his legal rights because he doesn’t pay child support is idiotic. If he was there to help create the children, he has a responsibility to support them. End of story.
Second, I don’t think Christine was passing judgment on you, Chastity. What she said if I read her post correctly was if people were more responsible (sexually, i.e. use condoms, etc), this wouldn’t be such an issue. To an extent that is true because despite your specific situation, there are many women and men who are simply sexually irresponsible. As you even said in your post, there are a lot of people who “need the 25 condoms” and that you aren’t one of them. If that is the case, why would you automatically include yourself in her statement when you acknowledged its validity?
Trouble the Pirate said this
You know… I never chimed in on this one because I don’t feel the need to squeeze sour-grapes, but… For purposes of illustration only, I am one of the purported ‘few’ guys that just happen to fall into the category.
It cost me three years of my life, and US$ 25,000 [lawyer fees], a house, and US$ 1,500 per month [child support & school fees] for the privilege of seeing my two eldest sons 52 days a year.
My ex remarried 3 years ago, takes several vacations every year, drives a Lexus, switches weekends on me with little notice, and always has some excuse why I can’t have them for the full week in summer that the court allotted me.
I often have to spend extra to cut their hair and they are always handed over to me without being bathed, given breakfast and sporting greasy faces and bed-head.
I have been slandered by her at every opportunity, and embarrassed too many times to count, she introduces her new husband as the boys’ biological father, tells people I’m a deadbeat-dad, tells the boys that I’m their stepfather, and told them to call him dad before they even got married.
She has started arguments with me because I took the boys out on waverunners [my good friend and I were driving, and are both extremely careful and experienced riders] & even when I gave them pop-tarts [unfrosted…] yet they had to be rescued when her cousin took them sailing and capsized the boat & she regularly takes them to burger-king, I’ve found out from mutual-unbiased friends… [double-standard much?]
I never expected much support from our court system, and I expected even less from her… It really doesn’t matter, I am quite adept at holding my tongue for the sake of keeping the peace and continuing to be a positive influence in my children’s’ life, and the fact that they have two ‘dads’ used to bother me until I realized that some kids don’t even have one… [I was one of those kids too…]
Linda the Virgin pontificated
Trouble,
My husband is in the same situation as you. If you ever have the money and propensity, and live in a state that allows evidence of parental alienation syndrome (CA & a few others), and your child wants to live with you, then you may be able to see your boys more or even get a change in custody. Then you will have the ability to collect child support, ensure that your boys are properly fed and cared for, and dispel any lies that have been drummed into their heads.
2 more things that bother me about the system:
1. Taxes are about money not residency. If one parent pays over 50% of the child care expenses, then that parent should be able to claim the child as a dependent, even if the child does not live with that parent. The tax refund will go to support the child financially as it is supposed to. The system should be changed.
2. Although parents should split medical costs (that is fair), if the custodial parent is negligent in taking preventative measures, then that parent should pay for all the resulting medical expenses? (ex: My step-son’s mother feeds him tons of candy & soda & does not make him brush his teeth. At the age of 5 he had 5 cavities. My husband and I, during visitation, always make him brush his teeth and do not allow him to have candy. Why should my husband be responsible for 60% of the dental expenses?)
Again, why can’t adults act like adults and do what’s in the child’s best interest rather than trying to use children to hurt their ex-spouses?
Christine the Lioness quibbed this
Thanks, Mara. You understood exactly what I was saying.
With regards to being judgmental… well, I think we’re all entitled to an opinion and I am of the opinion that if people acted a little more responsibly when it comes to having kids, a lot of problems we face as a society (abortion, child-support, custody issues, poverty, etc.) could be avoided.
A remark like Chastity’s last one “Good luck with all your judgmental remarks. I hope it don’t bite you in the ass.” … where you kind of imply that people shouldn’t point out other peoples’ mistakes because it could come around and happen to them in Karma’s grand scheme– is basically suggesting that this kind of situation COULD happen to anyone. It can’t. It doesn’t. And it won’t to me.
I’m NOT in a situation where I’m fighting with an ex over child support and custody issues because I made decisions that ensured I wouldn’t be in that situation. I’m not suggesting I’m better than anyone else, I’m just saying that we all have a hand in the situations we put ourselves in. There are exceptions to that of course, but for the most part, it pretty much holds true.
Christopher the Pyro hunt n' pecked this
Trouble.. you need my lawyers.
Chastity… “Hope it doesn’t bite you in the ass” It won’t.. because that somehow implies karma exists.. and it doesn’t… and while Christine is all about NOT judging people.. I will judge you to be a little on the ghetto side.. thinking people shouldn’t judge you based on how many baby-daddies you have in your life. That is like me not expecting people to judge me for the asshole comments I make here.
Linda the Virgin said this
Christopher,
Who is your lawyer & where does he or she practice?
Trouble the Pirate chimed in with
Chris, I had a very good lawyer… One who actually listened to me, and did what I wanted her to. Even though my ex was quite happy to use the children to her advantage, I refused to take that path. Not to be on the moral high ground so much, but because my siblings and I went through a bitter divorce with our parents, and it took many years to repair most of the damage it wrought.
A good portion of the child support I pay [about $700] is voluntary on my part, and I maintain a savings account for their college education also, and the piece of land I recently bought will go to them too. I can’t rely on her to make the necessary financial decisions that will be in their best interest for their future.
At the same time I also support my new ‘family.’ It can be stressful at times, but I made all my own decisions and have gotten myself where I am, I could not call myself a man, nor look in a mirror if I did not do what I do.
Linda, you do however make very good points, especially “Again, why can’t adults act like adults and do what’s in the child’s best interest rather than trying to use children to hurt their ex-spouses?”
Chastity, I commend you on your efforts to stand by your decisions and your children. By the way you speak, I am sure you are a very good mother.
Christine is entitled to her opinion. In my experience she is an extremely intelligent person, who gives ample and due consideration to most subjects before developing those opinions. She is also flexible and open-minded enough to give the opinions and feelings of other’s their due consideration where necessary.
There are many women who share her opinion and hold on to it until they feel it necessary to change it. This is the wonderful thing about opinions, you may hold fast to them, or change them, there is no shame in it. They are dynamic, and influenced by people we interact with, information we absorb, our experiences and yes… Even biological clocks. 
People with children are for the most part… Different from people who don’t have children, having children changes most people in many obvious and also subtle ways, my favorite way is how it makes you aware that there is a noble cause for your life, that the world does not revolve only around your own wants and ‘needs’… For several years I could not take vacations, or buy myself new clothes or shoes… Matter of fact my shoes had a few holes in them, but I wore them with the pride of knowing my children had everything they needed… And my feet were never smelly ’cause they were aired out good… 
Christine, I was in a committed and stable relationship when I had my first two children, but things change sometimes. My mother, was with my dad for 13 years, and her 2nd husband for 9 years… Things change sometimes…
And Chris, you’re not an asshole because of the asshole’ish comments you make here… You’re an asshole because you’re a man… Someone [anon.] likes you though…
Mara… Do you have a website? I would love to trouble you sometime… 
Christine the Lioness up'n wrote this
Thanks, Trouble. Like I said… I realize things change as well for people (my parents are also divorced and my father has actually been divorced three times, so I’m speaking from a different perspective as well… but like anything, much of what our parents do or don’t do, also guides our decisions we make).
Considering that there is pretty much nothing in this world that isn’t constantly changing, it’s ironic that we expect to meet someone, fall in love, and believe that our feelings for that person will never change. It is very likely that they will and when that happens, divorces also happen. It sucks, but that’s life. And most children (myself included) are happier knowing that their parents are apart and happy with other people, than together and miserable because that’s not a good way to grow up either.
And while I don’t have children and therefore haven’t experienced being a parent yet– I’m sure many of my views on how to raise them will change once faced with the reality of actually dealing with them– I can assure you my feelings about people having multiple children with multiple babydaddies or babymamas will not. I wasn’t lucky to not get pregnant up to this point. I made sure I didn’t because of that feeling. Now other people can sit around and lament that they were only 17 and made a mistake, etc, etc. But I was 17 once too. And I chose not to make that mistake then. I’m not suggesting Chastity is a bad mother or anything of the kind. But I do get irritated when so many people make these casual statements like hey… I was young… it just happened. We’re talking about bringing another human being into the world and raising that child to adulthood and all the sacrifices it takes to do that properly. To me, that’s one of the most important decisions a person can make. It should never be something that just happens because you didn’t think to use birth control. And I think it’s because I value the responsibility of parenthood that I see it as something you only do when you’re in a stable marriage with someone you honestly believe you will want to be with 20 years down the line.
So whenever I hear people say “You’re not a parent, so you don’t really understand how hard it is…” I suppose that’s true, but the fact that I do understand is sort of the thing that made me choose not to be a parent until I’m absolutely ready… anyway, that’s not a reflection on anything Trouble said. It was more an addendum to my response to Chastity.
But in short, I think we’re trying to lie on a simplistic, generalized system the government has created to deal with child support and custody issues and applying it to very complicated, incredibly unique situations between two people.
It would be nice, however, if all parents simply had their children’s best interest at heart and could let go of the hate they feel for their ex’s. If that were the case, everyone would be doing the best they could for their kids, and that’s all any child can really hope for.
Christopher the Pyro remarked
Kind of like making the choice not to put yourself in situations where you might get rapped.. right Christine?
Mara the Peacemaker commented
No, no website. I’ve a very suspicious nature. I can barely post on here.
Trouble the Pirate asserted
…Like not going up to Mike Tyson’s room at 2:30 am… 
Having taught women’s self defense courses in the past, I would be remiss to say that a woman would, or should be able to foresee EVERY situation where she might get raped, and avoid it.
There are the obvious… Like not walking into a frat-house, taking off your panties and then shooting a fifth of Tequila… And then many that are not so obvious… Like going on a date with me…
Youth should not be an excuse for mistakes… But it can be a valid reason… When people speak of the mistakes of youth, they speak of making poor choices based on a lack of experience, knowledge and perhaps patience. I made many mistakes that I attribute to this, before I became the great man I am today…
Christine… You don’t allow much room for single parents, I’ve seen some very competent ones…
Trouble the Pirate uttered
You should be suspicious of websites Mara… This one just ate my last comment…
Trouble the Pirate penned this
It was a good one too… 
Mara the Peacemaker quibbed this
Well, your name IS Trouble….
Christopher the Pyro penned this
lol…. really ate your comment huh… crazy.. I wonder how many of PJ’s comments got eaten by the spam filters.
Mara the Peacemaker stated
And as a woman who has taken self-defense courses, I may be bit paranoid than most because I am always aware that rape is an issue. I don’t go to ATMs or gas stations at night, I have what some may consider a psycho system of dating, I walk to my car after class with groups of people instead of the lone security guard and I try not to drive anywhere in the middle of the night because frankly, the last thing I want to do is have to call AAA to the Cajon Pass at 2 a.m.
Christopher the Pyro asserted
It seriously sucks to be a woman.. Mara you just convinced me. However props to you Mara I’m pretty sure you will lead a safe life. I would love to hear more about your Psyco Dating System..
Trouble the Pirate commented
Yay… It regurgitated my comment… I’ve never been so happy about regurgitation before…
Yeah chris, she’ll be safe as long as her ‘psycho dating system’ prevents her from dating me… And PJ I suspect… 
Christine the Lioness hunt n' pecked this
Actually… it doesn’t suck to be a woman. I’ve taken self-defense classes too and I agree with Trouble though… there are definitely times when things can happen that you aren’t expecting. Should women never go to frat parties and have a few beers because they can expect to be raped? At the point that women have to assume that all men are rapists and can’t be trusted, our society has broken down. I mean… I’m sure I’ve at some point told the story on this blog about how a guy literally got out of his friend’s car and tried to pull me into it as I was walking down the sidewalk. Had I not talked him into letting me go, I’m pretty sure I would’ve ended up raped or worse had he actually gotten me all the way into the car. So no… you can’t anticipate it everywhere.
BUT… to Mara… I’d like to suggest a good book for you to read. It’s called “The Gift of Fear” and it’s about how women can sometimes perceive themselves as victims because of various societal influences and how being “paranoid” or even “overly cautious” actually can prevent you from sensing a real danger when it arises. I’m not saying you’re like this Mara, but to illustrate my point, I had this friend I used to wait tables with and she was so scared of anything happening to her that she wouldn’t even go to a gas station after dark. The thing is… when you’re constantly on guard like that– and she was every time we walked anywhere no matter how many people were around, etc.– you cause your adrenaline levels to rise and walk around in a heightened state. The problem with that is… your body is designed to produce adrenaline when faced with a real danger, which is what allows you to not only realize the danger, but effectively choose the fight or flight response. When you’re constantly on guard, you’re falsely manufacturing the adrenaline and actually less likely to be able to sense a real danger when you might need to. The book is actually not that simplistic, but it was just one of the points that I felt were really beneficial for me (especially since I grew up in Nebraska where no one locks their doors pretty much ever– and then moved to L.A. where things are certainly different).
Now that comment about going on a date with Trouble… that was kind of creepy and titillating all at the same time… lol. And I’ve only seen the one picture of Trouble’s girlfriend and I will also vouch that she’s a hottie.
Oh and Trouble… I do allow room for single parents for sure, although I’m not a big proponent of people who choose to be single parents (like women who have not found the right guy, but they want a kid, so they get pregnant and know they’re going to go it alone). Doing the best you can under circumstances you didn’t have control over (ie– your husband leaves you and you have two kids) is noble, but to bring a kid into the world knowing you are depriving it of the relationship it should have with the other parent simply because you want a kid, is sort of selfish in my opinion. I think kids need both parents– a male and female role model– to emulate. I think that’s why both sexes are needed to produce a child– men and women are very different in so many ways and they both lend something to raising a child that the other cannot.
I guess it’s better to have one great parent than two shitty crack addict parents, right? But isn’t the ideal situation to have two parents that both love and care for the child? Just my opinion.
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