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Matt the Groupie added
I actually have been to Tanzania, and whilst there I saw very little evidence of child-skinning. In fact, I’d go so far as to say that I didn’t see anything particularly nasty at all. Maybe it’s different, I mean you’re sat there in your comfy house with your big computer and nice clean clothes, complaining that the price of McDonald’s has gone up or something, and $18 to you is fuck all. But to your average Tanzanian that’s 3 months wages. That’s the difference between feeding your family or not. We had women and children walk 3 days to our camp to sell us chickens for a measly $2. The Tanzanians who were there to protect us, would rather let their children die of Malaria than accept the $1.50 from us which would have bought the vaccine. I’m not trying to advocate child-skinning here, but before you rip the shit out of something/somewhere/somebody you have no clue about, then why not hold back a couple of seconds and consider what you’re saying before sounding like a complete moron.
Interesting thoughts
Al and I were chatting last night about something fairly innocuous, but it got me to thinking. We started by talking about me accidentally “putting my foot in it” with one of the bar staff, making some fairly flippant but humourously intended comment…
Christine the Lioness got all philosophical
Matt, Matt, Matt… I don’t care if the difference between feeding my family is or not is $18… I don’t think it gives you the right to abduct a child, skin him, and sell his skin. Criminals are criminals no matter what country they’re in and if you’d like to defend that behavior, I’m sure there are several serial killers sitting on death row here in the U.S. who would love to be your best friend. If you can’t feed your family without abducting and skinning people, then fuck you because you just aren’t trying hard enough. And let’s examine why there was a buyer for the skin, shall we? To make and sell voodoo potions that will bring wealth. Hmmm… if you don’t have $2 to get a vaccine for your malaria-ridden child, why the fuck are you spending money on voodoo charms??? Am I the only one who sees a problem with that? Third… you said the people there who were protecting you would rather let their children die of Malaria than accept $1.50 from you for vaccine… again, another brilliant decision. Is that pride or stupidity? If my child was dying, I would go to great lengths to help them and if some ‘rich’ American was willing to hand me the money it would take to do that, anyone who loves their child would take it. So while I sit in front of my computer, in my clean clothes, with my college education… I can certainly be sensitive to the fact that these people have it much more difficult than pretty much the rest of the world… but I still can’t condone child-skinning, spending money on voodoo charms when you can’t even afford food, or resisting help for your own kid when it practically falls in your lap. By the way… since you obviously spent some time there, did you get to see any of those big scorpions?
Matt the Groupie got all philosophical
Actually I did see a big ass scorpion. And some even bigger and much hairier spiders. And a lion. That’s besides the point.
To try and not confuse this between your comments on my blog and my comments on your blog (!), here it is:
I neither defend nor advocate crime - child skinning is still child skinning and the Tanzanian police ought to have large spikes inserted into them for not doing more about it.
However, they live in a vastly different culture and society to us. Murder is still murder, yes, but that’s moral relativism for you. To them, $18 is a lot of cash. The point I was attempting to make, was I found it wrong of you to judge the actions of Tanzanians on the basis of your beliefs in as much as you have a set of values, a life, an upbringing, a culture etc. which they also have, but one which differs vastly to yours, and one which you have zero concept of because you haven’t seen it for yourself.
Yes the Tanzanian refused our money because of PRIDE, because to them pride means something. Please don’t suggest this man did not love his children. It would have devalued his status as a man had he accepted our money. Do I agree with it? No. Do I respect his wishes? Yes. So don’t bitch about stuff you don’t understand.
Furthermore, the reason the child got skinned was probably to create these so-called voodoo charms which dumbass American tourists go to Tanzania and buy for stupid inflated prices. Yeh the skin might only have cost $18 but when the voodude sells it on, it’ll be more than that because it’ll make a nice gift for the neighbours.
I’d urge you to go and experience their lifestyle, even if you take a big fucking gun with you in case someone tries to sell you as a new rug. It’s only a guess, but I’d say the extent of your experiences are near enough confined to “safe” parts of the world - Starbucks, internet cafes and GAP. Seriously, check out other parts of the world for yourself. It might open your eyes a little to a different way of thinking. Hell, maybe it won’t, but least you’ll know.
And FWIW, somewhat ironically you got offended when I called you a bloke (I thought Chris had posted this rant of yours). Equally, I’m quite offended that you’ve bracketed me as American. I squirtingly am not.
Christine the Lioness chimed in with
I never said you were an American. Perhaps you should go back and re-read… as a matter of fact, I’ve never even heard an American use the word “bloke,” so that was a pretty big clue. I am not surprised you’re offended that I thought you were American (even though I didn’t) however. After reading the post on your own blog, I’m guessing you’re offended by pretty much everything. But that?s a different argument, so I will keep this focused on the Tanzanian thing here.
Have I been to Tanzania? No. Do I want to go? No. Were you being judgmental in accusing me of having limited experiences? Yes. Because I don?t agree with you, the extent of my experiences must be limited??? Hmmm? very interesting, open-minded point of view you have there. I?ve actually traveled quite a bit, so if you?re going to use that accusation to support your argument, perhaps you should make sure you?re not just jumping to conclusions. I on the other hand, don?t feel the need to convince you how well-traveled I am by listing off the number of countries I?ve visited in order to lend credibility to my point, so I won?t. I?m just going to rely on the facts at hand.
I’m not confusing the scorpion comment with the crux of your post… I was just hoping you might have a sense of humor. By your response, I can see you do not. But that?s beside the point.
While I haven’t been to Tanzania, it’s pretty damn obvious their culture is much different than our’s. You?re just stating the obvious and you don’t have to visit there to understand that. And your all-knowing sense of elitism because “you’ve been there an experienced it” is lost on me. Last year I spent a couple months in South Korea. Did I recognize the culture was different before I went? Of course. Do I defend the S. Koreans who eat dogs because it?s part of their culture? No. Just because I was there and saw that it was acceptable doesn’t mean that I am suddenly more enlightened than the rest of the world who doesn?t support eating dogs. Genital mutilation of women in African countries is fucked up. ?Ohhh, but it?s part of their culture?? Well guess what, slavery was once part of our culture and that didn?t make it right. And I don?t have to go to Africa and have my clitoris cut out to realize that. Sure, culture does affect behavior and yes, we should all be accepting and tolerant, understanding that not everyone will see everything the same way we do for many reasons?culture being one of them. That goes without saying. Does that mean that suddenly, no one should ridicule anyone else when they do something really fucked up? I think if we?re all just so caught up in being sensitive that we can?t ever point out things that are messed up and NEED to be addressed, then that?s sort of a disservice.
So seriously… Get off your high horse. Just because you’ve been to some fucked up little country and feel the need to defend criminal behavior or the willingness for a parent to let a child die because of pride, doesn’t mean you have some special take on the whole thing that no one else does. Give me a break.
As for the guy who would rather let his kid die a horrible death than accept money from you because of his pride– does not get an ounce of my respect. If you are going to bring a child into the world, regardless of what country you live in, then your primary responsibility is to provide for and protect that child. Fuck your pride. Pride is self-serving, and while you feel the need to sing this man’s praises and tell me I don’t understand the culture, I am being a realist by seeing a child who is dying and a father who could help, but won’t. Period. If my child was dying and the only person who could help wouldn’t do it unless I got on my knees in the middle of Grand Central Station and gave him a blow job, I would. Why? Because my child comes first.
Another thing… I highly doubt stupid American tourists would know the difference between a potion made from real skin and one that isn’t. So voodoo potion-sellers could probably save their $18 on purchasing real skin and just pretend that there’s skin in them for the Americans. I have a feeling the people there– who actually believe in voodoo– are the ones that would be up in arms if the skin potions were actually void of skin. So please don’t blame this on Americans. I don’t know too many Americans who wouldn’t be completely mortified by the thought of purchasing a souvenir with real skin in it?especially if they knew children were frequently abducted and murdered to make that happen. We tend to look down on that in this country. So let’s redirect the demand for that shit back where it should be… by people who actually believe that voodoo charms work.
We apparently agree on the ineptitude of the Tanzanian police. I’m surprised you aren’t going on about how they dont’ have the means to stop this, or it’s a part of their culture, or blah blah blah. Why defend the voodoo potion makers and not the police?
And I wasn’t offended that you thought I was Christopher. Christopher actually doesn’t give a shit about the Tanzanians at all, so he never would have taken the time to write this post. I was just pointing out that the author was a female and you were erroneously using the wrong pronouns to describe me. I thought you might want to know is all.
Christopher the Pyro got all philosophical
I think paying $2.00 for a chicken is a fair price.. it’s probably above market value in Taz,.. infact if I would guess that you got ripped off because you arn’t a native. Hmm.. also anybody who is dumb enough to turn down $1.50 for a vacinne.. I really doubt the world will miss them or their child… as for Matt not being an American, sucks for you man… j/k and Matt I can see why you thought Christine called you an American.. don’t sweat it, she likes ot generalize.. like when she tells me I always hitting her.. when in reality I only see her once in awhlie.. so it’s not like it happens everyday.
As for you Christine, I am deeply offend.. you don’t think I care about the Taz peeps…. I love all the people of the world… (except the fucking indians)
wtf havn’t I ever shown you my child-skin Voodoo charm?
Christine the Lioness got all philosophical
I knew Christopher would chime in sooner or later… aren’t we all glad we waited for his astutely profound two cents???
Matt the Groupie got all philosophical
Well “gee whizz”. I guess I was wrong. You’re clearly really open minded. I’m not too proud to admit when I’m wrong. Oh, wait, pride doesn’t mean shit to you, so maybe I am. Go figure.
Shhh… don’t tell anyone.
If this this anything to go by, no-one will be “vacationing” here either.
I’ll drop it now.
Christine the Lioness commented
Matt… I haven’t the slightest clue what you’re talking about. So you needn’t worry about me telling anyone since it probably won’t make any sense to them either. I’m not sure where “here” is… do you mean the “here” where you are? Because I don’t know where that is. If you mean the “here” where I am (which is in Los Angeles), then I’m not too worried about a sudden drop in the revenue from the tourist trade. However, you wouldn’t hear me bitch if there were a few less buses of vacationing Iowans backing up traffic on Sunset Blvd when I’m trying to get to work.
Christopher the Pyro quibbed this
Matt,
I would have to agree with Christine on this one, I’m not sure where here is.. and if here is where I live then we already have to many fucking people in this shit hole city and I would prefer if nobody visits “here”
george miyungire the Virgin thought this
Great work of fiction. What is your profession?
Christine the Lioness stated
George… except it’s not fiction in the slightest. Every single word is true… and thanks for asking about my profession. I’m a prostitute in Thailand, hoping to become a mail-order bride. 
Christopher the Pyro quibbed this
I wouldn’t hold your breath Chrissy.
Jimbob the Virgin asserted
If you are a Thai prostitute. your real name must be Christimabangbukngbrangdanfa. Or maybe just Maa. George (where the hell did he get the same name as Chris’ president) sounds like, at least from his last name, one o’ them there Africans. He probably knows more about Tanzania than any of us whiteys trying to sort out if we should go somewhere primitive for vacation. Well, I really just posted to ask about Matt. Where is he, and why have we lost his enlightenin’ input?
» I Hope You Have a Sense of Humor… by Battle of the Sexes the Virgin up'n wrote this
[…] The other factor that affects what is perceived as funny or not, is whether people can relate to the subject because they share the same culture or community. When a comedian makes a joke about how painful it is to see a rhythm-less white guy dance, everyone laughs. Why? Because we’ve all seen it and we can all relate. Now, if someone in Tanzania made a joke about the size of ants in Tanzania, most of us wouldn’t laugh. We don’t really understand the effect that ants have on the lives of Tanzanians, and it’s not really a stressor to us, so it ends up being sort of irrelevant (you can read more about how f’d up Tanzania is by clicking here if you want). But (according to the article I read) that appears to not be the case for situations in the United States. The United States is so observed by other countries, that jokes about our politics, our culture, or celebrities, our way of life are understood by non-Americans as well ( if you want proof, you can click here to be taken to a comment from a non-American who reads our blog, but you don’t have to). […]
Natty the Virgin remarked
You did quite injustice in portraying Tanzania, in fact you made it sound primitive and savagery. If one described USA only in terms of Appalachians or Menonites of PA or poor rednecks of rural South USA (Alabama, Mississippi, etc) … USA won’t sound neat and hollywoody. Most peeps go to Tanzania or elsewhere in Africa for tropical experience in hotels and pristine beaches plus boating (plenty good in Tanzania) or Safari expeditions in parks similar to Grand Canyon but with more variety of animals. If you go to Grand Canyon or death valley, you are bound to see a Scorpion, will that describe all USA??? I have lived in Tanzania for a while, and I never heard of human skinning fiascos. I won’t dismiss it, but I am sure if it exists, then it is in areas deeps inland where even majority of natives of other tribes don’t venture. It is like describing South America only in terms of deep jungle natives or natives of higher mountains instead of mentioning the carnivals and other sweet civilized happenings. Don’t know what happened to you in Tanzania, but I had fun and didn’t see or hear the shiit you talked about. Be fair, lotsa of peeps visit Tanzania and enjoy various fun and original spots.
Christine the Lioness added
Actually, I’ve never been to Tanzania… I am only going by what the Associated Press (being that they’re so biased and all) wrote… and the limited research I did on the internet as I was looking for articles about Tanzania. Those articles mentioned the “crack down” by police on those who kidnap children for their skin. Now if you say the police in L.A. are “cracking down” on gang violence, it’s a reasonable assumption that there is a gang violence problem in L.A. And, alas… there is. Otherwise, there would be no need to “crack down.” I’m assuming that if this Tanzanian skin thing is only happening in the deep inlands where even the majority of natives and other tribes don’t venture, then there probably aren’t too many children hanging out there that are getting kidnapped… and therefore, there would be no reason to “crack down” since if there’s no one around to victimize, a crime can hardly happen, right? So, based on that logic… I’m not suggesting Natty is wrong… I’m just relaying what seems logical from the information that I have. BTw– why is everyone so goddam sensitive about Tanzania? It is okay to acknowledge that various countries that have issues with child skinning, scorpions, and ants the size of chickens could be considered a shithole. And I also find it funny that everyone who defends to the death… is no longer living there. Hrmmm….???
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