*Knock* *Knock* *Knock*
“Sigh” Mumbling to myself I think… “Who in the world is knocking at my door at 6pm… Christine? Nah… she doesn’t just show up… must be the neighbor.”
I’m not really one for checking the peep hole so I throw open the door and instantly realize my mistake as a man dressed in a shirt and tie and a woman dressed in a dress are standing there. Ughh.. Mormons.
Don’t get me wrong.. I really don’t any have anything against Mormons.. at least not anything I don’t have against every other group of religions people who think it is ok to show up at my house to convert me.
Anyway as I they start their spiel about whatever they are spieling about it occurs to me that I might be able to have some fun with this…. so despite the fact that a hardcore game of Call of Duty 4 is blaring in the background.. (and calling for my return) I invite them in.
C: “Hold on.. let me turn this down so I can hear you guys better…, wait.. actually you guys don’t mind if I finish out this game do you?”
MC (Morman Converter): “Ughh… no.. well how long will it take”
C: “Just a minute, I can’t let me team down… I’m playing online and without me.. my team will surely die to these bitches”
MC: “ok”
A few minutes of me swearing and laughing as I get murder countless bad guys pass and eventually the the MC’s start to squirm so I offer the dude a go at the game.
C: “Try it, it’s relaxing”
MC: (getting a glare from the girl)… “No… it’s ok, I’ll pass”
C: “OK, your loss… want a drink.. Beer (ok I have no beer in the house but I knew they would say “No”), Wine, Rum.. Wisky?” as I walk to the kitchen and break out the a few glasses…
MC’s: “Water.. if you have any”
I grab a couple of bottled waters, and the only good bottle of hard liquor I have (some Rum Christine bought for me) I walk back to my living room turn off the video game and start flipping through the channels. The whole time I’m thinking damn if I can manage to find a good porn channel that will be crazy funny.
C: “So.. want to give me your spiel?”
MC’s “We wanted to talk to you about the Mormon religion…”
C: “Fantastic.. I have always wanted to talk to you guys.. I have tons of questions!”
MC’s: “That’s great… go ahead and ask.. we’ll be happy to answer them.”
C: “I’ve always been curious how your religion justifies knowledge of technologies and that never existed in Mesoamerica during the time period described in the Book of Mormon (BOM). For example chariots when there were no wheeled vehicles of any kind, steel swords when there was neither steel nor swords, bellows for blacksmithing, and silk. The BoM describes a vast civilization of millions who inhabited cities for hundreds of years, yet no ruins from even a single BoM city have ever been identified. No BoM place-names were in use when Europeans arrived in the New World. Seeing how Mormonism…. is you know really just a Mesoamerica religion… what are you guy’s thoughts on that?”
MC’s:..”Ugm… well you see..” “That is a really fantastic question, if your willing to come and worship for awhile we have many people who can give you all the detailed answers your looking for”
C: “Ahhhhh I see. They didn’t get that far with the koolaid yet….. anyway I have a few other questions many you guys could answer..?”
MC’s: (slighly less enthused now)… “Ya.. we’ll do our best”
C: “I would really love to sign on to a religion….. really all I need is one that doesn’t fall apart right away ok…? So if you can help me through these.. issues.. I think I might have found a winner… after all I dig that you guys encourage threesomes”
C: “So I think the Book of Mormon has some biological fallacies like animals that did not exist in the pre-Columbian Americas or had been extinct in that region for thousands of years preceding the period described in the book. These include the ass, bull, calf, cattle, cow, domestic goat, horse, ox, domestic sheep, sow, swine and elephants. Several common animals that actually existed in Mesoamerica (deer, jaguars, tapir, monkeys, sloths, turkeys, llamas, alpacas, guinea pigs) are never mentioned. Also described are crops that didn’t exist, such as wheat and barley. Actually ya know, the agricultural techniques required to produce those crops didn’t exist either. Once again, crops that were commonly known to Mesoamerica (chocolate, lima beans, squash, potatoes, tomatoes, manioc) are not referenced…. I’m actually pretty these are fairly significant conflicts”
MC’s: “Chris, we’ve actually got a few more people we need to visit tonight but here is a pamplet. Good Night”
C: “Damn guys. I just found Playboy TV. Alright alright g’night and good luck and take some time and think about the stuff I asked you… and if you ever want to come back and explain it all to me that would be great, I would cherish the opportunity to enlighten you”
————————-
So this story started out as a funny listen how my night worked out it also sparked some deep thoughts.
I’m not sure that the label “fallacies” was appropriate — a fallacy is an error in the reasoning of an argument, not simply any error, lie, deception, etc. If I say “2 + 2 = 5,” that’s not a fallacy. That’s just a mistake. The above issues I pointed out in retrospect seem to be more accurately labeled as lies, not fallacies.
There is simply no getting around the fact that demonstrably untrue things are claimed — and claimed in a work that supposedly came from God, even if written down by someone else. What, didn’t God proof read the Gold Plates?
An additional point of interest occurs to me: if so many people could follow a religion that is so recent but with so many factual holes in it, how much easier would it be to follow a religion that would be much harder to fact-check, assuming that anyone was even inclined to do so in the first place? One of the claims made on behalf of Christianity is that the events upon which it was founded were so recent for so many people that they wouldn’t have followed if the claims weren’t true. After all, it would have been too easy to check. Here, however, we have an example of a religion making claims that can be checked, have been checked, and have been shown to be false — and it doesn’t change a thing. Why, then, expect Jews and Gentiles in the 1st century Roman Empire to be any more skeptical and doubtful?
It’s fine to be skeptical, Christopher — afterall, Doubting Thomas was an apostle. He then became Thomas the Believer.
I think all organized religions have aspects that are factually incorrect or may be embellished to attract or retain the participants. It is the nature of a human organization — think of it as marketing…
Interesting you should mention that about Thomas.. I read a FANTASTIC book about Thomas.. damn… the… Didymus Contingency
I agree that all human organizations are inherently flawed because something that is imperfect cannot create something that is perfect. Which is why I don’t understand how people can take the Bible at its word. The Bible was written by a collection of people. It is therefore, inherently imperfect.
Well… the idea is that God actually “wrote” the words through these humans. That being said, I don’t know why he didn’t write them in stone like the Ten Commandments.
“Who in the world is knocking at my door at 6pm… Christine? Nah… she doesn’t just show up…”
So what kind of relationship do you two have? When my bride and I were dating, we pretty much spent all of our time together when we weren’t at work (well, actually, we worked together for almost a year, but in separate departments, so we didn’t fraternize at work). I’m just curious. I thought you two had each others’ keys and spent most evenings together playing GH3 and having wild sex…
Hmm, haven’t heard much from TtP lately. he must be back in the doghouse — I’ve heard he has a poor wireless internet connection from there.
PJ,
Thanks.
I’m already on her shit list anyway mostly because she wants to date someone just like you PJ.
Oh PJ… you really don’t want to open that can of worms. This has been a major source of contension between christopher and I for quite some time now and quite frankly, I’m getting close to the end.
We’ve been together 3 1/2 years now and Christopher refuses to give me a key to his place– he needs “his own space.” And he rarely invites me over there– I’ve been over there 3 times in the last five months.
On top of that, I’m not allowed to be in the apartment when he’s not there, so when I do stay over, he wakes me up and kicks me out in the morning before he leaves for work at 6 AM instead of letting me sleep in and let myself out.
Most people in relationships that I know do spend evenings together, have each others’ keys, and don’t have these bizarre rules (I’m not allowed to drop by if I don’t call and tell him first). On top of him not inviting me to stay overnight at his house, he stays over at my house only about once every 2 weeks.
To be honest, I’ve brought this up many, many times. How I want our relationship to be different– I want to wake up with him and fall asleep with him, I don’t want to feel “unwelcome” at his house (his neighbor can drop by without calling first but I’m not allowed to). It always makes me feel like he’s hiding stuff from me or just doesn’t love me enough to be “that” close to me.
Not that Christopher doesn’t do amazing things… he does. But they aren’t really a substitute for truly sharing all aspects of your life with someone. So what kind of relationship do we have?
I wish I knew the answer.
It’s not that I want to date someone “Just like PJ.” But come on… people do give their significant others the key to their place (especially if it’s been almost 4 years). Every time I bring this up, he just shuts it down and tells me that he doesn’t care what other people think or what other people do.
In my opinion, there are only two reasons he “needs his space.” Either he doesn’t trust me, or he has something to hide. And quite frankly, this aspect of him not letting me really be a part of his entire life has pushed me away to the point that I am not even sure we will recover.
His pat answer is always “If you’re in this relationship for some pay-off, then you shouldn’t be.” I don’t think giving each other a key, or moving in together, or actually falling asleep (instead of darting out after sex), or marriage is a pay off. I don’t think I’m wrong to want it or expect that a relationship I’m in should be going in that direction. Those are all the things you do when you truly love someone and let them into your life completely. And if you’re not willing to do those things, then you can’t expect the person to “just know they’re loved.”
I do not care to discuss this on the blog. Sorry Guys.
Since you won’t discuss it in person either, I’m not surprised.
When someone shows me an [fairly] infallible system, I will convert to it… That goes for religions AND relationships… Until then, I subscribe to the church of the Waitress Ogling Heineken and Vodka Martini Drinking Girlfriend Avoiding Latter Day Doghouse Partying Brethren Idiots of the What-the-hell-did-I-do-to-piss-her-off-this-time Saints…
I’m here PJ, and not in the proverbial doghouse anymore… I got ‘reviewed’ by another [obviously more popular than I originally thought when I told the chick who volunteered them to do the review to 'knock herself out...'] website… So I have been literally inundated with like 5 or 6 EXTRA visitors today, so I had to write them a ‘thank you’ post, which took me like 2 hours ’cause I type so slow… {e.g. time to type this comment *14 minutes…}
Are you the leader of Vodka Martini Drinking Girlfriend Avoiding Latter Day Doghouse Partying Brethren Idiots of the What-the-hell-did-I-do-to-piss-her-off-this-time Saints… if so where is an application and a donation form.
I thought you were, Chris.
What did I miss while ensconced in bar hell? Chris playing with the Mormons…
Hi Trouble! What’s new??
As you might have gathered, I seemed to spark a number of comments today
Hi Mara,
We could use a Peacemaker right now — I ‘m just not sure if the situation calls for a Mother Theresa-type of Peacemaker to counsel Christine (I obviously touched a raw nerve) or the Samuel Colt-type Peacemaker to silence the likes of me!
Don’t fight, please, unless the make-up sex is REALLY incredible.
I don’t think there’s going to be any make up sex. He’s not even talking to me right now.
Trouble,
With just 2 more comments, you’ll pass Keith on the list! So, why don’t you tell us about your latest epidermal etchings! How much did that cost you?
“I don’t think there’s going to be any make up sex. He’s not even talking to me right now.”
Sorry… I blame myself for your vaginal dryness tonight.
[NO -- Trouble -- don't even say it.]
It has nothing to do with you, PJ. Trust me.
I’ve been acquainted with Ben [no, not in THAT way] the artist for many years now, I pay KY$100 [US$125] per hour. The picture on my site is 1 1/2 hours of work in progress on my left sleeve. It is all ‘free-hand’ work in an Asian style, wind swirls, cherry blossoms, and insects…
The plan is to continue across the top part of my back, morphing into Asian style water, lotus blossoms, and koi, and into my right sleeve. I have a large dragon on my back, and the wind/water theme will encompass that also, along with the names of my 3 boys in Kanji [Asian calligraphy]… Their names will be under each of the Dragon’s 3 feet [as the Dragon is a symbol of 'protection]
Then I’ll get “Welcome to the Cayman Islands, we hope you enjoy your stay, thank you for choosing this destination, and have a pleasant day” tattoo’d on my penis…
OUCH, Trouble!
I’m just curious… in what size font?
Good question. That is a lot of writing…
As usual, the most pressing thing on my mind is lunch. I’m considering Chipotle.
I think it is rather obvious that Trouble would need the font size to be 69…
…I never said it was all going to be on one line…
There PJ… I have overtaken Keith on the Top commenters list, now proximity-wise I am right up your ass… Hope you’re happy… I can’t help but feel a little guilt about passing-over Keith when he isn’t even here to defend himself… Oh well…
DON’T pity the poor bastard!
[What kind of a Pirate are you anyway?]
Here’s to your rise in the ranks, laddie! (b)
…I never said it was all going to be on one line…
I guess that depends if the writing is length-wise or girth-wise, Trouble.
Fuck Keith. He abandoned us.
Well, the fact that it’s not on one line totally changes everything.
Geez, ‘tine, IF it was all on one line, it should probably have an addendum stating: “if you can read this, then you ain’t doing it right”
Was it Chipotle? How was lunch?
I did not have Chipotle but I did have Mexican food and it was delicious. I already have my dinner planned.
[ chirp chirp]
So… um… how is everyone’s Saturday going?
Learn more about Trouble here:
http://troublesisland.wordpress.com/2008/02/29/347/
I still want to know what justifies “the Pirate” portion of your name…
Well, to answer my own question — I’ve just completed reading and evaluating over 400 applications from the “skulls full of mush” that want to transfer into my college. I am tired and my wife will surely be asleep when I get home… *sigh*
Good-night.
Sweet Dreams, America
(oh, yeah, you too Cayman Islands!)
[chirp]
;(
Pfffft — It’s hard to get through all of the cob webs in here… :[
[hint hint]
After being in catholic school for ten years, I have to say, that the Bible’s imperfections became a reality to me in first grade. Where the hell are the dinosaurs?????????????????? I cannot believe the lame explanations that came from the straight up drunken irish nuns, and Father Bluett. A behemoth is not a freakin dinosaur….. that one stupid name for whatever the hell a behemoth was, does not cover the entire dino period. They simply f’d up and there is no way around it. Why weren’t dino’s on the ark???? Hmmmmmm, cuz they freakin forgot to mention them anywhere, ever, and why not in lieu of the dino’s, were there not a male and female behemoth (?) on the ark. Fish could swim so screw them they were on their own, there wasn’t two little fish bowls of every kind of fish, and that is really very surprising to me since the whole bread fish miracle from Jesus to feed everyone…. I mean obviously he needed the fish. OK, so I will stop with the bible beating…. speaking of bible beating tho… when I was so pissed off about the dinosaurs not being in the bible , while we were practicing for our first communion, when Sister Nora left the room, I ate the entire body of christ wafers….. I don’t care what anyone says, christ is pretty damn good…. especially with milk. I don’t think the mormans could have swayed me… I think I am now like an Episcabudajew.