Matt the Groupie scribbled

This is why the UK system is much better. The waiters/waitresses get paid at least minimum wage, so they’re making money whatever. So they have a perfect incentive to work hard, because if they give me good service, I’m going to tip them well. If they’re crap, then they don’t get shit. The US is arse about face, because they’re expecting to get a tip anyway, so they don’t work as hard, I get shoddy service and begrudge having to give a tip. I remember the first time I went to New York. I bought us a round of drinks and that was that. Then my brother told me I had to drop another 3 or 4 dollars as a tip for the barman. Just ‘cos he poured me a couple of lousy drinks. Nope, your system is screwy.

May 11th, 2005

Brad the Virgin uttered

Not tipping a waiter/waitress that makes shit money and works their ass off in a thankless job is NOTHING like not shopping at Wal-mart. Wal-mart employees don’t work for tips and if you don’t shop there you’re not hurting those employees. Plus Wal-mart is such a huge corporation that if even if Chris doesn’t shop there I’m going to guess they still make a huge profit.
Now if you get great service and leave a shitty tip or no tip then you are fucking over a PERSON not a CORPORATION.
You may think if someone doesn’t like it then quit. You’re right. But a lot of waiters/waitresses are students or recent graduates or single moms…just people trying to get by until they have a real job. So, in the mean time you should fuck these people over because they haven’t made it yet?
Your whole arguement about enabling is absurd. It’s tipping dude not alcoholism.
I agree that waiters are some of the many people that get fucked by the federal government on a daily basis but that doesn’t mean because Chris decides not to tip that the policies will suddenly change. The only thing you’re enabling when you tip is the waiter’s faith in humanity and his ability to pay rent and eat.
Be a good person and tip.

May 19th, 2005

Brad the Virgin uttered

Chris, Chris, Chris,
You are a funny, funny guy. I especially enjoyed the “slimy liberal” comment (I’m sorry I mean slimly libera”. I guess you think I’m svelt)
Yeah, isn’t it slimy to care about helping people.
So, you think that if you just up and stopped tipping that would change the system? That’s like saying if I don’t vote then Bush won’t be President. But the evil fuck IS President and food servers STILL work their butts off for shit pay. The tipping system has been in place for a long time. It’s not changing anytime soon (regardless of how many careless fucks don’t tip). It actually doesn’t need to change. There are few people that make careers out of food serving. The draw to it has a lot to do with getting tips. It’s much better to have cash everyday then to wait for a paycheck. But servers get taxed on the tips so the paychecks are tiny. The tip money is the money that is used to pay bills, eat, get gas..etc. Call it socialism if you want but sharing to me is called being a decent human being.
You also need to slow your roll on your liberal smack talk. Keep in mind that every single progressive movement in this country that made it better was a “liberal” cause. Such as Women’s Rights (okay I know you don’t suppport this one)
How about the civil rights movement? Martin Luther King was a huge liberal. What a whiny dick huh?
Hey, let’s look up liberal and conservative in the dictionary:
Liberal, n. 1. favoring progress or reform 2. free from prejudice; tolerant. 3. characterized by generosity 4. ample or abundent. 5. not strict or literal 7. a person of liberal principles (which are 1-6)

Conservative n. disposed to preserve existing positions, institutions, etc, and limit change. 2. cautiously moderate. 3. traditional in style or manner

Now which one of these people would you want to hang with? The cool progressive thinker or the uptight, set-in-his-ways, judgemental douche bag?
Plus the change you propose to the tipping system would qualify you as liberal. OH, THE HORROR!!!
Look Chris, I met you and know you’re not a douche bag so just agree with me this one time. OK? I promise I won’t tell anyone you have a heart. Deal?

May 19th, 2005

Brad the Virgin penned this

Chris,
If you want to brag about how intelligent you are then it’s probably a good idea to spell welfare and illegals correctly.
You’re right about one thing. You don’t know me very well.
Your arguements are just as one sided as anyones. You are THAT worried about illegals? Join the minutemen then and you can share the hate and bigotry with others that think like you do.
I am very well informed. I don’t just repeat what I hear on the radio or read. I actually don’t even have a radio. I also try to look at all sides and weigh the FACTS and come up with my own very well informed opinion.
I sent you the most simple definitions of liberal and conservative from Webster’s. That doesn’t show my lack of understanding for them. And you linking Wikipedia the online Encyclopedia does not prove you are more enlighted one bit dude.
Here is some real reading you need to do before you get on your soap box again:
“What Liberal Media?” by Eric Alterman
“The Best Democracy Money Can Buy” by Greg Palast
“Pefectly Legal” by David Kay Johnston
Anything and everything by Noam Chomsky
“Perpetual War for Perpetual Peace” by Gore Vidal
The Guardian UK
Truthout.com
These are just a few very well researched and respected sources for unfiltered truth.
Now I don’t know you either but from reading some of your posts on here your views sound about as broad as a puddle.
As so what if I call judgemental people douche bags. If I judge judgemental people than that makes me judgemental? Okay, whatever. I do judge people but I don’t try to change their lives if I don’t agree -unlike conservatives who want to bend EVERYONE to their thinking/views. Now both my parents in Nebraska are huge conservatives and though I love them dearly I feel their views of the world are very limited.
You also didn’t beat me down. Don’t flatter yourself. I am intelligent and I have educated myself. You should try it.
I will agree that both extremes of liberalism and conservatism suck and I don’t think anyone can be exclusively one thing (except for maybe Pat Robertson) but if you want to claim that you walk a liberal line then fucking act like it. That means drop your whole machismo whiteboy victim mentality.

May 21st, 2005

Rob the Soldier added

Hey Brad,
If you are going to be picky about spelling, I would suggest that you spell the word arguments correctly (Hint, hint, it isn’t arguements). Although Chris tries everything he can to sound like an asshole (and only convinces the occasional stranger), it seems to me that you might really be an asshole. All of your talk about being intelligent and educated makes clear that you are not. I do have a few tips, though, so that in the future you do not look as stupid as you do to the entire audience of chrisvschris.com at this particular moment:

1. Don’t ever pick on grammar or spelling in the blogsphere.

2. If you do break rule one, make goddamn sure that you do not misspell any really easy words, like argument or anyone’s (not anyones, but this is a very common mistake, so I understand why you might be prone to making it).

3. Never get sucked into an argument with Chris. There is an old proverb that applies in this case:

Never wrestle with a pig, because you both get tired and dirty, but the pig loves it.

So, I hope that my advice (and VERY gentle criticism) has been helpful.

Take care, and get a dictionary,

Rob

May 21st, 2005

Rob the Soldier uttered

No Christine, this is not about either my dick, or tipping, but spelling and grammar. Nothing pisses me off more than a self-proclaimed intelligent man who cannot spell and picks on other people for it!!! There is nothing more important than this.

May 21st, 2005

Crystal the Soldier pontificated

We had this discussion tonight. We took the kids to Pizza Hut, because my 3 YEAR OLD twins love nothing more in this world than pizza. The bill was $25.75, and I tipped $5. The hubs nearly choked when I told him. I’m like “Dude, that waitress has to put up with all kinds of shit there, I mean it’s not exactly high class. She was good, our order was filled quickly, she checked on us, did a good job. I tried to clean up most of the mess in there, but she has to clean up after OUR kids. She doesn’t deserve 20%?? I’d want 20% for that.” He finally agreed.

May 27th, 2005

Crystal the Soldier uttered

Kids in a high class restaurant? What’s wrong with these people? I’ve seen the damage my kids can do in McDonald’s, I’m not trying to take them for some fine dining. Poor, naive Chris, he should take a job as a waiter, just for one month, to see what a bitch it really can be. After that he should barback, since not tipping your bartenders means those poor barbacks aren’t getting squat either. If you don’t want to tip, why not eat at home?

May 30th, 2005

Kris the Virgin remarked

Ok, I really enjoyed this conversation. It boggles my mind to think that a post about tipping can turn into a political debate, but if that’s what works for you, keep it up.

I went to college, I worked as a coctail and as a server. We made $2.11 an hour plus tips, and on most nights we left with far less than $200. However, it’s an instant gratification job. If you need money, you go to work and you leave with money. Few jobs are like that, unless you are illegal and working under the radar.

That said, Chris, you go ahead and keep on not tipping. However, I highly suggest you never return to the same restaurant that you don’t tip at. We servers have memories better than elephants, and we will remember you. Non tippers get treated very poorly, and we like the spread the word about you guys.

August 16th, 2005

Pikkel Weezel the Virgin chimed in with

The thought that tipping is automatic makes me want to vomit acid soaked food chunks. If a server does a good job, I tip the hell out of them ,at least 20% ,if they suck ass, they get nothing. I consider my beer glass the tip meter, if it stays full, I am happy.

August 21st, 2005

Peter the Virgin penned this

Wow, I finally made it down here to comment. This goes all the way back to comment #1, and your AND Finally! It may not be your responsiblity but wouldn’t you rather distribute your wealth than the Government. I was just a little confused about who was being the socialist. I’ve seen all the points and like most things it’s hard to see who is right/or wrong.
Tipping to me sounds like something that at one time seemed like a nice idea and more of a choice when someone gave someone something “over the top” as far as service goes, until you get to the point where you are today, from the most fancy place to the smoke filled coffee shop.
For myself I can only say this I will keep tipping until I’m forced to tip at McDonalds, Then I’ll stop, because then I know we’ve gone too far!

August 21st, 2005

Peter the Virgin scribbled

Although answer this though Christine, you can debate all night long about food service, but why should I tip at Starbucks?

August 21st, 2005

greywulf the Virgin chimed in with

I’m with Christopher here. I don’t tip. They are there to do their job, period. If they are on low wages, then they should do something about that. Tipping is just perpetuating that low-wage culture by subsidising the cheap-ass restaurant owners’ wages.

Tipping = legitimised begging + blackmail all rolled in to one. If a shop assistant expected me to give them 15% of the cost of the new shoes I’ve bought otherwise they’ll spit in them, that’s extortion. Why should waiters and waitresses expect a tip on a similar basis? Why should be expect to have to give one?

Of course, if someone does something that’s beyond their job role, puts themselves out for us, then they deserve credit, thanks and maybe a tip. If the refuse collectectors take all the trash after Christmas, then they deserve a tip; it’s a thankless task and they’re doing something above and beyond what they’d normally do.

But a waiter giving me hot food on a clean plate? That’s not tipping fodder, that’s their job.

August 22nd, 2005

Jay the Groupie penned this

I feel ridiculous saying you are right about this because you are sooooo right it’s painful. Tips are not incentives, they are imperatives.

August 29th, 2005

 added

Servers are taxed on about 8-10 % of there sales. The government assumes you make at least 10%, so they tax you at that rate. In reality, they are setting the level. The people YOU vote into office. So if you don’t tip the min. of 10%, the server is actually losing money.

Also, I assume that those of you who said you don’t tip still feel that bonuses are OK. Apparently if you work in a suit and tie, it’s OK to collect additional earnings for your work, but if you are serving beer or food, you don’t think they are deserving.
I also tend to assume people who don’t tip don’t because they are cheap, that’s it. You can justify it anyway you want to yourself. You don’t want to tip? Too cheap? No problem, stay home.

You tip for the service. Being a part time bartender, I tip well because it assures me good service, and I make enought to afford it. I guess many of you don’t. While I am getting my food and drinks quickly, the non-tippers are waving your one dollar bills in the air wondering why you aren’t being served promptly. Well, there is always Popeyes.

As for “begging”, I am sure you guys don’t mind begging for sex or attention from women. If you can degrade yourself that way, why can’t servers beg for more money.

September 9th, 2005

Wontar the Virgin thought this

A tip is a “thank you” to the server who has done a better-than-average job. It is absolutely not mandatory to tip. If the server did a lousy job and did not receive a tip, and over the course of the year did consistently poorly and is taxed higher because of it, one of three things will happen: he/she will become a better server, he/she will get a different job, or he/she will stay in the same job being bitter about the taxes and perpetuate the cycle of being a lousy server and paying more at tax time. I tip accordingly. I’ve tipped more than 20% for excellent service, and I’ve left two cents or less to those who were lousy. A tip is a reward, not an obligation.

September 10th, 2005

CrazyDan the Virgin penned this

All this arguement over tipping is pretty fun. I worked at a waiter paying my way through college. Waiters are like stripper only with clothes on they depend upon tips. So the fact is its ok not to tip but if you do not tip remmeber to to go back to that place again because we remember and will get our revenge. Myself and many people WILL put extra things in your food I promise we have no promblem with it. Tipping ensures that if you comeback to our restaurant your food will be good but if you can’t tip expect spit, hair, piss, or whatever is handy thats discusting. Maybe you informed us of something our allergic too and you can be sure thats going in there.

September 17th, 2005

MsFreud the Virgin added

Let those of you who live in or visit Las Vegas- tip your slot staff if you hit a jackpot…. Or we’ll curse your machines.

October 24th, 2005

Jose the Virgin stated

I believe in tipping because it is a thankless job, with shitty pay. That example of the waiters/waitresses getting 100k is not the common everday situation. If it was, I would throw on a apron and start tomorrow.

Right now my girlfriend waitresses and has her good days and bad days. She is a college student, so her options on where to work are limited. I told her she could just stay at home and do my laundry and clean, for a modest salary consisting of me sexing her up. Besides, it’s bad enough that she wears shoes AND can read. C’mon, what’s the point. But I digress.

I am a person who likes to go out and eat and drink. When you tip well, you get hooked up. Stiff drinks and wuick service. That’s what it’s all about.

BTW, I’m in the military and I walk a liberal line on many things because many things being debated about currently I could give a rats ass about if they don’t affect me directly. With that said, I voted for Bush because I like the thought of showing that America does have a stomach for war and cares about its interests abroad. I think I’m going off topic. Bah. Gotta stop drunk blogging. Oops! Boss is standing next to me…

October 27th, 2005

akaRaff the Virgin mentioned

Mind you Christopher, this is coming from a guy who thinks the whole concept of the “Tip Cup” has gotten out of control. Think about this. A waitress is paid 1.50$ an hour because it is a tip based position. This is not a choice of the waitress but instead this is how the IRS signifies it. If they weren’t tip based then the owners would be forced to pay them at least minimum wage which would in turn make your meal more expensive. In the end it is probably cheaper to give a 20% tip then to have the owner pass through the minimum wage salaries they would have to pay otherwise. Waitresses are not Starbucks’ employees who make minimum wage or higher. Tips are part of the deal. Stop being such a tight-wad christopher…pay the waitresses tips and tell the Starbuckss’ folks they will have to go with out the 47 cents.

November 10th, 2005

Don Bell the Virgin got all philosophical

I have been “security” at various bars, worked as a “chef” at a resturant, and have friends that are or have been on the wait staff. I have YET to see where the cook/chef doesn’t make more than the wait staff, so the comments by that NY resturant shocked me.

All that said, if the service your received consisted of you getting your order taken cordially, receiving your food warm to hot (hot being better of course) (or cold if it was supposed to be cold and not “room temp”), and the wait staff came by during the meal to check on drinks, etc. You should tip at least 10% (11% in California as I understand it), 15% if you want to stick to the “standard” (and I use that term tounge in cheek). If you get better than “standard” service, tip better. I’ve been known to tip up to 55% for outstanding service. (And when I go to those resturants, the service I get is much better than those around me, as they remember me well, and take very good care of my table. I also get the owners coming by my table many times to make sure all is well…)

On the flip side, if you get crappy service, see that hair they put on your plate, don’t tip, and talk to the Manager. Only way to get things fixed.

November 12th, 2005

Clete the Virgin scribbled

You guys and your tipping battle. You’re all making this a lot more difficult than it really is. Bringing in politics and such. Its really simple. A waitress/ waiter doesn’t give me good service. What makes me have to pay their rent? If i get incredible service, then of course ill give them a few extra bucks. Christine you talk of how waitresses and waiters “work their asses off.” That isn’t entirely true. All waiters don’t “work their ass off.” These are the ones that shouldn’t be tipped. It’s common sense. You’re lazy? You don’t stop by enough and i have to wait 30 minutes for my ticket bc you’re chattin’ the fuck up with a guy you haven’t seen in a while in the booth behind me? [Its happened!] You aren’t getting a damn thing. Of course i could turn around and ask for the ticket but then there i am being an asshole.

On the other hand,,,you bust your ass. I dont even have to ASK for a refill. It just magically appears. I get a smile and enthusiasm? You’ll get a little extra bank. It comes with the job. The gov’t doesn’t pay you minimum wage bc they expect you too earn your tips. Not bc they expect you to just GET them. I understand these ppl are mostly college students and such. But they know good and damn well what they’re getting into when they apply for a serving job. They know they aren’t going to even get minimum wage. Why not apply for a different job that pays more? Why expect a person with a career to pay for your rent? The one being selfish here isnt the customer. Its the waiter.
Now if the waiter went into the food business as a server bc he liked waiting on ppl and was a joy to have around then that’s who deserves the tips. Not the person who expects a handout. They’re almost as bad as a begger on the corner they just have a nice uniform and and get payed at least 3 bucks an hour.
Cheers*

November 15th, 2005

Clete the Virgin hunt n' pecked this

The gov’t pays you minimum wage* Not “doesn’t”. I got ahead of myself.

November 15th, 2005

Clete the Virgin spake, and sayeth

It isn’t about being “cheap”. It’s about the waiter doing his damn job that he’s PAID to do. I’m not saying don’t tip at all. I’m saying it should only be if the waiter/waitress deserves it. They’re going to get paid whether i tip or not. They’re going home with a paycheck and a few extra bucks from other people’s tips whether i tip or not. If they want a good tip, they’ll work for it. I’m not expecting them to “do cartwheels and bust out into a chrous of Oklahoma.” I’m expecting them to do they’re freakin job whether they like it or not. I expect them to deal with whatever problems they have before they get to my table and serve me and take it out on me. Bc its happend. Waiters that are pissed off and treat me like im the one “asking” for too much. Like if my orders wrong, he wants to get an attitude. I understand they’re human and we all have our down days. But if he expects a tip he’ll work for it. I’m not one for handouts. That’s his job.

And yes I know people don’t go into that because they WANT to serve people. But they if they want to sit here and complain about me not leaving 3 dollars on the table because they’re a shitty waiter then screw em. I dont need that. Get another job if you want more money. Or be a bum. They ask for handouts all the time.

November 19th, 2005

J-Ro the Virgin spake, and sayeth

I will begin by stating two things: First, unless the waiter was incredibly bad, I tip generously; usually at least 20%, which in my opinion is ridiculous. I do it out of a vague sense of guilt, plus I don’t want people to spit in my food, which is something about which I am a tad outraged; people should NOT have to be worried about eating spit. (But I’ll get to my thoughts on the “blackmail” aspect of tipping in a minute.) Second, I have been a member of a waitstaff before and received tips plus $2.38 per hour. You won’t get rich waiting tables, but on the other hand, I remember it being the most money I had ever made without so much as a high school degree (at the time.)

However, I am inclined to agree with Greywulf and Christopher. TIPPING BLACKMAIL IS UNACCEPTABLE. Paying people just so they will not spit in your food is wrong. It’s extortion. Tipping is supposed to promote good service, not to buy mafia-style protection against ingesting other peoples’ saliva!

Christine, regarding the New York restaurant automatically adding a 20% gratuity: At first, I agreed with your statement: “The patron who had the option of tipping or not as an incentive for good service, is now forced to tip whether the service was good or not.” BUT, then I thought about it some more, and realized that most people still tip anyway (the article cites the national average as 18%) because they’re either satisfied with their service, or they’re afraid of having their food spit on.

Now picture a world where tipping were universally mandatory. The restaurants would be forced to pay their employees a liveable, steady wage as a direct function of a percentage of sales. Waiters would still be expected to do their jobs, but if you have a problem with service, instead of not paying the bum, you have to take it up with his manager.

This helps CONSUMERS in the restaurant industry in two ways: 1) It lets the management know if they have a bad waiter. (Stiffing the guy and walking out without saying anything doesn’t let management know there is a problem!) 2) It gets consumers out from under the vindictive thumb of waiters who would spit in their food. Think about it!
It also helps WAITERS, because tying the gratuity to a percentage of the food tab STILL ensures that waiters will make more on busier nights (when they’re presumably doing more work.)

It also helps the RESTAURANT, because if consumers no longer have the option to silently leave a bad tip and walk away, restaurant management will be brought back into the loop on policing the quality of their waitstaff. In the long run that will lead to better quality of service, which breeds customer loyalty.

And to satisfy Christopher’s point, they would then be “doing their jobs for the wage they’re being paid”, not looking for an “extra handout” for merely doing their job. And I would fully expect a manager to be on hand all the time, to discreetly take feedback on waitstaff performance. In my opinion, that would be much more effective than not tipping and hoping the bad waiters will eventually, silently, take the hint and quit.

November 29th, 2005

J-Ro the Virgin pontificated

Regarding a mandatory gratuity; Case in point:
Four of us (two couples) were out at a local Thai restaurant a year ago and we got The Worst Service any of us had ever received. But the restaurant’s policy stated they add an 18% gratuity for parties of 4 people or more.

If we could have left a shoddy tip and walked away, we probably would have done so. But the fact that it was built into the tab FORCED us to go get the manager and explain what was wrong and why we thought it was presumptuous and inappropriate to affix a gratuity charge to our bill.

He agreed, and waived the gratuity, allowing us to tip appropriately. (Some managers would have gone further to “make it up to us”, but removing the gratuity was minimally adequate to satisfy us.) The upside is, the problem was made right, plus, now the manager knows there has been a complaint about that waiter. If he gets other complaints, he can actually ADDRESS the problem (either more training for the waiter, or walking papers.)

Thus, mandatory gratuity is a win-win scenario! It doesn’t mean you necessarily pay the gratuity every time. It just means that if you have a problem, you’re forced to talk to the management, which in the long run helps the whole industry get better.

November 29th, 2005

Jennifer the Virgin remarked

Christine, you are so right! I have been a waitress for a couple of years and I have people come in and complain about something so stupid and get a bill comp. They also complain that if the food takes to long, it is the servers fault. The real problem with the whole tradition of tipping is these corporations that started taking advantage of it. They believe putting a dozen and a half servers on the floor (or more) at say $2.13/hr will get them better customer service, but in fact is going to just piss all the employees off. If servers were paid minimum wage, there would be a major stress relieve and a compromise between who wants to tip and who does not want to tip.

November 30th, 2005

J-Ro the Virgin asserted

Christine,
I would like the chance to rebut. First, I don’t think we should be catering to people who *want* to pay according to the quality of service, but who won’t take the *responsibility* to address specific problems when they occur because “conflict makes them feel icky”. Stiffing a waiter and walking out (without explaining) is passive-aggressive behavior and I can’t say I agree with that as a prospective solution to bad service. People with a weak nerve are going to have to suck it up and get over it. Period.

Second, waiters need to CYA a little better. I don’t think a waiter should ever, *ever* take a glass (or a plate) from someone, no matter how apparently empty it might be, without asking “Are you all done with that, sir?” There’s no excuse there. If a waiter can’t be bothered to do that, he should *expect* a few disgruntled folks who can’t remember how much was in the glass. It’s not as though this is a difficult, time-consuming, or unreasonable task to check with the person you’re expecting tip money from.

Third, regarding “any problems with the meal always being seen as the waiter’s fault whether or not it was really the kitchen’s fault”, under the mandatory tipping system that would not be a problem. When you talk to the restaurant manager, the waiter is completely removed from any potential conflict. It becomes the manager’s job to sort out whether a complaint is bogus or if you actually got bad food/service/etc. And if you get something comped and it’s not the waiter’s fault, the money comes off the bill, *not* out of the tip! The only way it could come out of the tip is if tipping were optional (ie, controlled by the consumer!)

News flash to the service industry: The population you are serving will contain jerks. You have to deal with it and still give everyone great service, including the jerks. If you can’t deal with that, get out of the industry, right now. That doesn’t make the jerks any better, but they are part of your job as a service employee. Overall, you still come out *ahead* if you just do your job and keep a good service attitude. I mean, you make on average 18% in tips and are only taxed by the IRS as though you make 10%. So you get almost half your tip money tax free!

I personally work in the service industry and I don’t even *get* tips. There is no monetary incentive for me to work hard or please my customer, I get paid no matter what degree of “satisfied” my customers are. “Then why do you strive to do a good job?” you might ask. Answer: professional pride, and managerial feedback! My motivation comes from a desire to keep my *job*. If I give bad service, someone can’t just stiff me and walk away. If I give bad service, a customer could complain and it would reach my manager. Then I would have to try to prove whether I provided good (or even adequate) service to the customer. Believe me, I know that sometimes customers complain for very little reason, and in those cases, my manager has taken my side. But on the other hand, sometimes I legitimately screwed up. When I screw up I want to know it, because I care about the quality of my work and how I am perceived. However, there’s no way my boss would know about it if our customers simply controlled my income with no venue for specific items of feedback. I would end up getting the shaft, most likely, since as you stated, there are some customers who just don’t want to pay for anything and would make stuff up hoping for a freebie. Why should that be *my* (i.e. the waiter’s) problem? Let *management* worry about dealing with those parasites, and telling them ‘yes’ or ‘no’. Meanwhile, *I* am on the front lines dealing with more customers, and unless management fires me, I should get paid no matter what. And so should waiters.
On the flip side, if enough people complained and/or if I were a truly difficult service individual, my manager would see that, and could try to get me better training, or in the worst-case scenario, he could establish a documentable pattern of complaints to enable him to fire me if he desired. THAT is how you keep service standards high; by recognizing overall trends in the feedback you get on your employees. Not by establishing a pattern of instant-gratification and mood swings for waiters on a check-by-check basis dependent on that night’s random sampling of customer tipping!

I never sit here and think, “Why should I help Mr. Smith? What’s in it for me? He never calls my manager with any praise. I won’t make any more money by helping him quickly and thoroughly.” Nor do I think, “I remember last time I tried to help Smith, he complained. I’m not making his case a priority, he gets the bare minimum.” I just do my best to help *every* customer, *every* time, because that’s my JOB. I do it for a *fixed* price, day in, day out. I don’t understand why this model could not be effectively applied to the food service industry.

December 19th, 2005

Megan the Virgin spake, and sayeth

I found this site by accident and I was drawn in my Christine’s initial comments. I am a waitress in NY and it drives me absolutely crazy that so many people stereo type waitress (at least where I live) as being either too lazy or too dumb to get a “real job” People seem to think that they are for some reason above us and that gives them the right to be rude and condescending and tip like shit. Well, I can assure you that most waiters and waitresses that I know are neither lazy nor dumb. Chris, when you go into a restaurant you know that a tip is expected, especially for good service… you said that if we don’t like working on tips that we should get another job–well, if you don’t like tipping, why don’t you sit home and cook your self a meal, server it to your self and clean up after your self?
Personally, I work as a waitress because I have a 1 1/2 yr old son and my husband’s salary does not always cut it when it comes to miscellaneous daily expenses. Before I had a child I worked for a large financial corporation and had a good salary and I could not return to work because I do not want my child raised by nannies and day care centers. Waitressing allows for a very flexible schedule and I can work overnights while my child is asleep at home with his father. My point is, everyone has a story, regardless of your profession, and you should under no circumstance assume that you know someones story because they serve you food!
Also, Chris, Tipping is not much different from purchacing things at Circuit City or other places where their staff works on comission… the difference is that their tip is a hidden charge. Would you ever walk in to buy a stereo or a tv and tell the person helping you that after all the help that they had been to you, you would like to know how much comision they are making and then to please have the manager deduct that from the price of your purchase? No, I don’t think so… At least when you go to a restaurant, you arent incurring any hidden charges!

December 21st, 2005

Megan the Virgin stated

Chris, I just thought that I would elnighten you as to how my pay works and why tipping is important… My salary is $1.25 per hr and 1 hr per shift is deducted from our pay because it is considered our “break.” That break is actually the time that I sit at the counter because the diner is so slow that we don’t have anything else to do. The restaurant claims that we recieve 18% gratuity on each check, so we are taxed on that (even though suggested gratuity is only 15%).
On an average night I make about $60- for an 8 or 9 hr shift. 15% of that is tipped out to the bus boys leaving me with about $54- to take home. Of course, some nights are better than others and some nights are worse. You see, Chris, even the IRS thinks that you should tip!

December 21st, 2005

Christine 2 the Mercenary added

http://mydecay.blogspot.com/2005/12/fucking-tourists.html
I work as a waitress…and I’m not getting into the mudslinging. Everyone has interesting ideas, and honestly I’m too fucking tired from busting my ass tonight. But all those people that did tip me, tonight and ever, gave me another semester at college. Was it their responsibility? No. Am I hunting down non-tippers to kill their families? No. But, just as one says please and thank you out of courtesy, one should tip. Is it your RESPONSIBILITY to say thank you when someone helps you out? No. But if you don’t…are you and asshole? Yes. And you should burn in hell. But that’s cool, because after I get my big fancy job, I’ll tip even more. Why? Because I hate the government, but I love the people. What’s wrong with a little encouragement and showing someone that you appreciate their extra effort? Chris, have you ever been somewhere to buy something, gotten completely pissed at the horrible way they treated you, and cursed them to damnation? Well those fuckers at Best Buy selling you the service plans get paid more for fucking you over. And they don’t care whether or not your visit was pleasant. But when someone comes in to eat, and I give them company, attention, courtesy, and consideration , it always makes me feel better that I EARNED that tip. I don’t expect people to tip me if I do a shitty job. Which is why I do a great job. When I do a great job and then you don’t tip me, I don’t want to go get a different job. I say, “Man, that dude is a douchebag.” And that’s it. But interestingly enough, the people that get paid the most are most often the people that DON’T give a shit about your visit, but rather want to fuck you into poverty to benefit their own wallet. Making it some kind of social movement is just a cop-out for being cheap. Yeah, I’m sure if you don’t shop at Wal-mart, the trend will catch on, and then all those little starving kids in the sweatshops and will go out and get better jobs. Maybe they will finially get a fucking education and become lawyers. But it’s not always that black and white. And I agree with Christine, that everyone should just put their dicks back in their pants, and accept things for how they are. Fucking Realistic. You not tipping is not making people go get better jobs, it’s making available jobs harder on people.

December 22nd, 2005

Christine 2 the Mercenary asserted

Well Chris, I seriously doubt that anyone reads the STD database and remembers names for future reference. That would almost be counterproductive. I think it’s just a funny way to trash talk people, so that one day you don’t show up with a gun, or maybe blow up a government building. But most waitresses, due to their lack of education (hence the shitty job) probably don’t have the drive or intelligence to plan that far ahead. haha.

December 23rd, 2005

J-Ro the Virgin thought this

Christine, I’ll do my best to keep this short for easy mental digestion on your behalf. You attacked one point I made and dismissed the rest of my post; Essentially, you disagreed that stiffing your waitress is passive-aggressive behavior. Honestly, I don’t care whether you agree with that label. I used it because it is exerting power over someone while avoiding direct conflict and without addressing the root of the problem. The term “passive aggressive” bothers you? Fine. Let’s just call it “conflict avoidance.” But at least admit that if you’re defending the “conflict avoidance scenario” of walking out without leaving a tip, then you’re in effect saying it IS ok to stiff your waitress, if you don’t feel she deserves a tip, without discussing it or telling her why. This surprises me, since I thought you had created this thread to argue *against* that point.
Your last sentence in reply to me was also unnecessary; Obviously, the optimal situation is that I go to a restaurant, get great service, and leave a good tip. No one was arguing that. Sheesh.

December 26th, 2005

Mara the Peacemaker up'n wrote this

I’ve been following this discussion and I have to say that I’m with Chris. One of my roommates is actually a waitress who has argued to me that she is entitled to a tip EVEN when she provides bad service. That’s ridiculous for a number of reasons, the first being that I live in California which does not have a server’s minimum wage. So the argument that the servers don’t even make minimum wage and literally live off of their tips is even less compelling since they actually do make minimum wage in California.
Notwithstanding that, the fact of the matter is, I shouldn’t be required or expected to care what the person serving me makes. As cold and harsh as it sounds, people choose the work that they will and it isn’t my fault if your employer doesn’t pay you enough. Do I think it’s shitty that some food servers make less than minimum wage? Definitely, but I also don’t think customers/clients should bear the burden of that cost. Afterall, when push comes to shove, I care more about being able to my own rent than yours. The fact is, if the federal tax laws assume that a server is making more than they actually are (i.e. assuming that a server will make _% in tips for every sale), then it sounds like the laws need to be changed. If the state in which you work has a tip credit law, then it sounds like the law needs to be changed. If people are so concerned with food servers being paid fairly and adequately, then do something about it. But don’t expect me to subsidize your income because you don’t make enough. I work my ass off and trust me, no one is tipping me because I don’t make enough. That’s just insane.
Furthermore, I find it insulting that someone who refuses to tip is labeled as cheap. How dare someone tell me how to spend the money that I worked hard to earn. It’s my money and if I choose not to give to you to help you pay your rent, that’s my perogative.
With that being said, I do tip when and what I think is warranted. If I get exceptional service (and this means going above and beyond what you are paid to do– sorry but the fact that you brought me food is not “exceptional” — that’s your job) then I tip well (sometimes 20%, sometimes even more than that). However, that philosophy isn’t limited to food servers. If my mechanic goes above and beyond (and he usually does), I tip him — not with a cash gift but perhaps I’ll buy the staff gift certificates whatever. But this idea that food servers are entitled to tips — I don’t think so. You’re entitled to what you agreed to earn when you signed/verbally agreed to work for your employer.

December 28th, 2005

J-Ro the Virgin asserted

Christine, I don’t agree that I was “labeling people because they won’t do what I want.” I was not categorizing people… just an action. In defense of my “label”, I’ll offer this, and then I’ll drop it: “Passive aggressive behavior can occur when someone is angry at another person, but is restrained for some reason from openly expressing that anger. The anger is expressed in some hidden way, such as sabotaging the other person’s work [or by leaving without tipping.]”
However, I do see your point about not wanting to get forced into a potential conflict situation over why the service was bad. Although usually I would be more inclined to try and help the restaurant become aware of why something was wrong with the service (especially if I like their food) so that they can improve, I can also see the point of view of someone not wanting to have to deal with it. I would agree that it’s not your responsibility; it’s just something that it would be nice if people took the time to do, since in truth a customer feedback loop to management would probably help improve the overall quality of service in the industry, in the long run.
Also, it seems like you’ve perhaps softened your stance a little (which is ok). At first you were saying “always tip 15% unless the service is absolutely horrible” and “whatever you do… leave a tip!”. Your more recent point of view was expressed as “Why the hell should anyone tip a server who did a crap ass job?”.

December 28th, 2005

J-Ro the Virgin scribbled

Mara, you are right ‘on the money’ that ideally, tax laws should to be changed as they pertain to the assumption they make about getting tips. However, on the other side of the coin, I know from experience that servers don’t report an incredible percentage of their tips as income. Can you think of a system that would be more fair to servers but not let them get away with half their tips tax-free?
Also, it sounds naive to say “I don’t think the consumer should bear the burden of that cost [of paying servers a fair wage].” Of *course* consumers would have to pay that cost. Where else do you think the money would come from? All cost increases (in any industry) get passed to the consumer.

December 28th, 2005

Mara the Peacemaker remarked

1.I know that consumers bear the cost of insurance, etc in the price of goods. To clarify, what I meant was that I shouldn?t have to subsidize the income of a server because their employers don?t pay them a decent wage. I just can?t justify doing it for food servers but not for the guy who works 40 hours a week at McDonald?s and has a family to support. Both are service positions yet we only ?tip? for one of them.
2. If the issue with tipping stems from the fact that food servers are low wage earners, then raise the price of the food so that food servers can be paid more. Even in cases where the tip is ?automatically? included in the price of the food (as Christine suggested), the patron still has the option of tipping more for exceptional service. The patron doesn?t know that included in the price of the $14 burger is a 15% tip. If the issue with tipping stems from the idea of being a service industry and you?re tipping based upon service, then patrons should be allowed to tip whatever they want without this 15% to 20% minimum crap. You can?t have it both ways. Either you want to be tipped because you?re a low wage earner or you want to be tipped based upon service. You shouldn?t get tipped a bare minimum of 10% or whatever for shitty service based upon the argument that the servers still need that income. (Note: I realize that not everyone here is making that argument but it has been made.)
3. I take offense to being labeled as cheap. Obviously you didn?t read my post. I said that I DO tip when I?ve received exceptional service. As for what I consider exceptional service, it really depends. And the fact of the matter is, what a person decides to tip based upon how they perceive your performance as a server is completely arbitrary. I may consider you service exceptional and leave you a generous tip while the person next to me might think otherwise and leave you nothing. As a patron who has the option to tip for service, I should be allowed (or from your point of view, expected) to tip whatever I want. In my opinion, you are not entitled to nor deserve a tip for doing what you are already paid to do. If you think the value of what you do is worth more, you charge more (or be paid more). Surely, I?m not going to give the mechanic an extra $50 because he installed my brakes properly. That?s what he is being paid to do in the first place. If he feels that the brake service is worth more, then he should charge more. But he most certainly should not expect me to pay above the quoted and agreed upon price because he performed his job competently. And really, bringing my food to the table as you were hired to do only proves that you?re competent. That doesn?t necessarily mean that you provided great service.
4. The fact is, just because you?re a food server doesn?t mean you?re entitled to tips, ESPECIALLY if you already make minimum wage which you SHOULD and if you aren?t ? check out federal and your state?s labor laws. Tips are gratuities and if I want to leave one I will. If I don?t want to leave one, I shouldn?t get hassled over it. You?re only doing what you were paid to do. Why on earth should you be paid extra for that? Ludicrous.

December 28th, 2005

Mara the Peacemaker scribbled

To Christine-
The mechanic example is not totally irrelevant. We live in a service based economy?EVERYONE charges a service fee. Some people just include in their prices. Thus, the mechanic who charges me $200 for part my brakes has already included what he thinks he should earn based upon the service he provided in addition to parts and labor. Same for my attorney, etc. In practically every scenario in which you are doing business, someone is providing you a service in some form or another. The guy who sells shoes at Macy?s may assist me in trying on the shoe ?he doesn?t get a tip for that yet he?s providing me a service.
I guess this tip argument would make more sense to me if food servers were independent contractors ? that is, if I personally hired you to wait on me at a particular establishment. But you aren?t. You were hired by an establishment to do the very things you mentioned ? take my order, bring the food and bring the check. You are already being paid by the company which hired you to do this. Why the hell should I be expected to pay you additional?
As to your other points, don?t blame the customer because the federal tax laws suck and you don?t make minimum wage (which you should be by the way when you combine your hourly rate plus tips). It?s not my problem that the tax laws assume that you made a certain percentage of tips on a sale when you actually didn?t. Why should I care? I didn?t force you to become a food server.
-California does not have a server?s minimum wage.
-For the record,I?ve already said that I tip (read earlier post) (I also disagree that refusing to tip makes you cheap. It?s my money-I don?t have to spend it on you). However, I tip when I feel it?s warranted. I do not feel that food servers are entitled to nor deserve tips simply because of their chosen occupation.
-Tipping in the U.S. is a custom and not a law; it is not required? therefore, you really shouldn?t expect to be anything beyond what you agreed to work for.

December 28th, 2005

Mara the Peacemaker commented

1. Ok, I’m confused. A food server is hired to do three basic things (correct me if I’m wrong) 1) take my order (2) bring my food and (3) bring the check. If they do all of those things they aren’t exceptional but somehow you seem to think that they are. They’re competent. They’re JUST competent because they are doing what they were hired to do. Competent: adequate for the purpose; properly or sufficiently capable. You ARE ONLY competent if you can do your job without screwing it up. If you were hired to take my order and you can do that without screwing it up, you did your job adequately and properly. That doesn’t mean that you did something exceptional or even well. And your argument that they should get paid for it also doesn’t make any sense because they ARE paid for it! That is what they HIRED to do. Hire implies that there is an employment relationship which further implies that you are getting paid for your work.
2. The fact that tipping is a custom does not mean that it isn’t a stupid and ridiculous system. Furthermore, it doesn’t mean that the custom is right. Jim Crow was a custom in southern states and that’s now illegal. The custom argument isn’t compelling.
3.The other thing that I was wondering is that even though many food server’s make the server’s wage, it is my understanding that the combination of your tips plus your hourly wage is supposed to be at least the minimum wage so that in actuality, food servers do (or at least SHOULD) make at least the minimum wage. If that is this case, then the argument that food servers are entitled to a tip (even though it’s customary and not mandatory— is it really?) really falls apart. Your argument becomes “you should tip food servers because they make minimum wage” and that’s beyond absurd. Why is it absurd? Because it is not the customer’s fault that you’re working a minumum wage job. It’s not even their problem and the idea that I, as the customer, should be expected to compensate you for that is ludicrous. Wow, I would have loved to tell the customers at Borders where I made minimum wage that they should have tipped me because I was only making minimum wage. Hey-afterall, I’m hunting all over the bookstore for books for them and providing them personal service. Once a woman gave me a list of books to find for her (she had a broken leg and the pain didn’t allow her to walk all over the bookstore). After personal service like that, I definitely should have gotten a tip because I made minimum wage and that’s shitty pay. I don’t think so. I agree that minimum wage sucks and there are all kinds of reasons why people take those jobs. Some people just do what they have to do. Two years ago I was working THREE jobs and attending school fulltime because (1) I needed the money and (2) one of those shitty paying jobs by itself wasn’t going to cover my bills and tuition. But guess what? That’s not anyone’s fault. I don’t blame the customer who comes into Chili’s because I have to work a low paying job. That’s not their problem and I would never expect anyone to think that it was. Yes, food servers work hard. But everyone works hard and everyone doesn’t get tipped for it (nor do they expect that they will). Food servers have to deal with a lot of crap. But so does everyone and oh by the way, dealing with crap goes hand in hand with customer service. I work for an attorney and I get yelled out by clients all day long because of something HE’S done. Should I get tipped for that, taking crap from clients day in and day out, getting cursed out by clients day in and day out? No. Why not? Because that’s something that goes hand in hand with my job.
4. The parallels are not completely analogous but they weren’t meant to be. The fact is, everyone provides a service and the value of the service that you provide is determined by those who are willing to pay for it. Obviously, you don’t decide what the food costs but then again, YOU aren’t providing the food itself so you shouldn’t determine that. You DO decide however, the value of your service (taking orders, bringing the food to the table, etc) and that was what you did when you agreed to work as a food server. No one forced you to take that position. The reason that food servers are paid what they are is because that is how much your employer is willing to pay for your service (and to some extent, what you were willing to accept). If you don’t like what you make, get another job. But don’t expect this ridiculous brand of pseudo socialism. And that’s all that it is when I’m told I should tip someone because they make minimum wage. Ridiculous.
5. As for your bonus analogy (though it was not directed at me), I get them in my line of work. And yes, when I get them, I think I deserved them. But the difference is that I don’t EXPECT a bonus. Why? Because I never agreed to work for a bonus. I agreed to work for a specified wage and frankly, that is what I expect. Anything above and beyond that is just that- a bonus. I wouldn’t be upset and hassle my boss if I didn’t get a bonus because I am not entitled to one. You cannot say that food servers say the same.
I’m not a heartless person. If I was, then I wouldn’t tip. But your angst is directed toward the wrong party. If the tax laws are shitty, then it sounds like it’s your elected officials you should be pissed at, not the customer who just ordered iced tea. Does anyone else think that this perspective is completely warped?

December 29th, 2005

Mara the Peacemaker scribbled

I apologize for my last post being so long. I meant to break it up. Sorry!

December 29th, 2005

Mara the Peacemaker mentioned

If you read the read of that you would have undestood that my argument had nothing to do with tipping 15%. It was in response to you “just competent” comment.

December 29th, 2005

Mara the Peacemaker thought this

And if I misunderstood what you were saying, which I probably did, then I definitely disagree that I should tip someone for being merely competent. Hope that clarifies.

December 29th, 2005

Mara the Peacemaker commented

I’m not offended. If she had read the rest of the post, she would have known that I misinterpreted what she said (which I already admitted to) and actually, wasn’t referencing her argument about the tipping at all.
And actually, Christine, waiters are actually LUCKY to have tippers like me since I DO tip and sometimes, I tip more than 20%. I just think the idea that you expect a tip (and actually get pissed at the customer when you don’t get one) is stupid and ridiculous. Thus far, no one has posed any argument that really justifies the expectation.

December 29th, 2005

I forget the Virgin added

If they do a good job give them 15% if they do a shitty job give them hardly anything and if they are so bad its not even them that gives you your food then fuck them up the ass and give them nothing

December 30th, 2005

sugar the Virgin penned this

the custom of tipping could probably be dissected here. waitresses and waiters are in part salespeople, if only in that the speed of their service can affect bottom line. so the argument that it is a visible and negotiable commission is partly true.regardless it is very entrenched.everyone please don’t act like the restauranteur is a parasite for going with a centuries old custom.it’s a tough business to turn a profit in most fail in their first year.it’s not up to you to decide how much a restaurant charges for a meal other than not patronizing it. don’t go in and not pay!that would be seen by all including the police as stealing.and my dear that applies to waitress and waiter too. if you have some problem with paying them for their hard work then stay home cook for yourself or maybe order to go.this is how they are paid.that is such an established fact that many state govts allow for waitresses not to be paid by the restaurant at all.some charge the waitress to work there ala c I was told the pay would include tips. since you have no idea what is involved in waiting on people other than thinking that a food handler should provide you with sexual services to be entitled to earn a living you need to shut up stay home and jerk off in front of your computer and eat frozen dinners bleak hateful person.you wouldn’t last 3 days at the job, on your feet, intense memory work, taking verbal abuse from arrogant people like yourself.the fed govt under the trickle down pres started to tax all these people (cab,salon,wait staff etc) on their tips.however even though waitresses get taxed on their tips whether they receive them or not they do not get the privelege of unemployment benefits,disability or social security that you enjoy when you pay taxes on your income.Fior d’italia spent a ton of money fighting to have the right to pay the social security payments to the individual accounts of their servers instead of the general fund of social security.I’m sure you would have issues with that since so many immigrants come here and collect social security even though they have never worked a day in their life or paid a dime of a tax to our govt.in fact after 23 years of waitressing my social security is way lower than an elderly immigrant so called parent of a mail order bride. just another reason to stay out of restaurants for you so please do.who else do you begrudge being paid for their work? do you look down on people who work for a living. do you want even more people to earn minimum wage or less. do you like living in a nice neioghborhood? then don’t begrudge or deny your fellow citizens/neighbors a good living.going out toeat should be a fun social event not your opportunity to act out social change fantasies or your insecure cheapness disguised as such.capitalism requires rthat money circulate so let’s lend ,it spend it ,rolling along as the song goes that’s what it’s for. lots of bossy cranky customers are actually aware of themselves and appreciate their need to be the “mean boss” tolerated and tip very well.you could make up for your past transgressions I’ll send you my P.O. box. at least do you self a favor and start enjoying life scrooge.christine if he doesn’t change drop this cheapskate who only wants to tip strippers and find yourself a confident generous man like you deserve.life is short.

January 1st, 2006

Christine 2 the Mercenary penned this

I think a good compromise would be to simply raise the pay of the servers in full service restaurants to 10% assumed tip, so that the food price increase will not be drastically different, and then the consumer is still left with perfect opportunity to tip more, granted the service is “above and beyond”. The one problem with completely taking away the consumer’s responsibilty to tip based on good service : Server’s are motivated to do well based on the fact that the better they do, the more they expect to recieve in tip, based on the “social standards” of tipping in that particular restaurant. If they know they will automatically get a certain tip for their service, the incentive to “go above and beyond” is pretty non-existant. You would receive the same service everywhere. The law should be changed so that the establishment is forced to reimburse employees at LEAST what the government is already taxing them on. That is what should determine the min. wage. (Which would also give restaurants more incentive to have better training, and higher standards for their waitstaff). But, in the cases that the service was “exceptional”, a lot of people would leave a tip, and they wouldn’t have to leave as much. That would help everyone out. If someone left 10%, that server was automatically tipped 20%, and they wouldn’t necessarily have to claim more than the 10% in taxes. The consumer still has a choice, yet the server can’t be losing money based on that person. And finally, food establishments can’t get away with not being responsible for providing for their employees, based on the assumed social custom which isn’t guaranteed.
Christine said:
“Crap ass service means they didn?t do the three things they needed to do: take my order, bring my food, and bring a check. Period. So yes, in that respect, if you can?t do that, then you don?t get 15%? you get 10% or sometimes less. But the truth is? anyone can make up anything in their head that the waiter could have done, but didn?t do, just to justify not tipping so they don?t feel cheap. ?Oh? well my water glass was only half full while I was eating my salad, instead of completely full, so I don?t have to tip.? Be real. You?re just fucking cheap. Admit it.”
Exactly.

January 1st, 2006

sugar the Virgin commented

explain to me how working long hours on your feet running in circles taking orders from the boss, the cook, the customers,etc is not helping yourself and looking for a handout? there are minimum wage jobs that don’t offer tips…I once worked in a restaurant thta pooled the tips and added them automatically to every check then divide them equally between every employee, accountnat,kitchen help cashier and so forth. when one of the wait staff called in sick not one of the other employees was willing to fill in.same pay.change of pace.no way! that is the agreement when you dine out.you are served you tip.do you only obey social contracts with the force of law? sorry bub I smell cheapskate. please there are restaurants for those of you who think people should stand on their feet all day for minimum wage McDonald’s, Taco Bell you don’t need to waste the time of hard working people with your miserly impudence and weak facade of indignation. you should not mock the working class for doing honest labor.you want to go out to upscale or middle class establishments with table service to impress yourself or your friends or enjoy thier superior products and the pleasure of being waited on then play by the rules. sorry all waqitpeople are not the hooter level you referred to earlier. i don’t know what aimees is like but if that is what it takes to get you to not act like the lonely grumpy old men who don’t tip( the lack of generosity of spirit to pick such a pointless unfair fight might just explain why they are alone ) then confine your dining there. oh and by the way you kind of proved my point of you being a cheapskate and a little bit of a thief and not confident and needy in spite of your claims of having a good income by mentioning that an enticement to tip was free soup. you spread your misery to others unnecessariluy and hmm maybe you hate your job.try waiting table maybe you’ll like.men can work at it til they drop.no need to be pretty,young or have big tits. on the other hand you have to like people and hope they have plenty of money to spend.not in your values,poor worried, miserly fool. enjoy yourself it’s later than you think. sugar understands but she hopes you can drop your hateful ways

January 1st, 2006

sugar the Virgin up'n wrote this

oops a salary? no it’s wages I knew you wouldn’t know the difference. and then you resort to making fun of people who work at mcdonalds.you will always be poor because you are poor in spirit.no amount of money will ever make you happy, even though you have it much easier than the mickeyd employees. instead of taking out your stress and resentment on hardworking restaurant workers relax let them take care of you and pay them for their work it is implicit.be grateful for your employment and spread the good times.be grateful you were given the education and the opportunity and ability to get a good job with responsibility don’t put down people of a different station in life it is unbecoming.long before i was a waitress i would dump a bully who would treat a servant badly, it indicates bad character. no one is forcing you to participate in tipping situations so stay away stop ripping off working class people it’s in the Bible that the laborer is worthy of his hire.that’s jesus talk for pay up.how is expecting to be tipped when that is the custom that the public and the IRS and state govts hold to be true?follow your own advice enjoy your station in life or
change it.Please don’t print the name of the restaurant or waitperson who gave it to you they will be fired just as you should fire yourself as a customer of table service places.i know i’ve also run restaurants.that also reinforces my point that it is you who want something for nothing.let go of your resentment of waitresses it makes you look small.

January 1st, 2006

sugar the Virgin mentioned

a salary and wages are different.a salary is paid to get the job done regardless of hours, wages are hourly, and tips fall into a category like piece work.tips are not a handout.did I say mcD’s employees should get the same pay as other jobs? calm down. sorry I hit a nerve! But also I never said you did not earn your employment just to acknowledge your good fortune and not resent hard working people you are not giving handouts when you compensate someone for work performed.since you are such a hothead I bet it’s no fun waiting on you. unfortunately, I’ve been checking your site and well you are a bully, a cheap chiseler. I don’t currently work as
a waitress.I would love to but I had a spinal cord injury and most places would not hire someone my age. I was always proud of being a waitress and always will be.I always left the freebie decisions up to the management that’s their job.many restauranteurs are aware that people feel appreciated when they do that.just as servers feel appreciated when they are tipped/paid for their labor.by the way 27 states allow wait staff not to be paid minimum wage.oh and I did give complimentary food when I ran the show.chiseling waitpeople out of their tip is not an honorable way to pay for your extra ten dinners out.anyway I’m too busy after today to continue this discussion/argument so good luck hanging on to christine I think you are overmatched whether you pay her or not.yours is an imaginary battle and it makes you look weak and cheap and it is as I said before so unnecessary.

January 1st, 2006

Mara the Peacemaker scribbled

Christine, I have a question about claiming tips. Even if you have to claim a certain percentage of your tips for every sale you make, does not the govt refund you whatever it overtaxed you at the end of the tax year? How are you taxed for income you never received?

January 2nd, 2006

Mara the Peacemaker stated

To Christine again– that question wasn’t me being facetious. I’m really concerned b/c that just seems illegal. Can you clarify?

January 2nd, 2006

Mara the Peacemaker added

Thanks for the explanation, Christine. I also did a little outside research. You’re right, the system was instituted because the IRS believed that tips were underreported. In actuality though servers are not supposed to be taxed on more than they earned. The 10% is really an estimate of what the govt thinks a server will earn but of course that estimate could be too high (some restaurants have reciprocal agreements with the IRS where the percentage might actually be higher). The income and tax should be adjusted at the end of the tax season based upon what that server actually earned.
I’ve a feeling that most servers are not aware that it is flat out illegal for the IRS to ultimately tax you for income that you haven’t earned (meaning that at the end of the tax year, the IRS should refund you whatever tax you overpaid like it does everyone else).

January 2nd, 2006

Christine 2 the Mercenary quibbed this

I can’t respond to a lot of the things that piqued my interest brought up in this converstaion, because my post would be way too long. However, I do agree that people that have mind-numbingly easy jobs shouldn’t expect to receive a wad of cash for slack effort. Which is why there is a difference in McDonald’s and a five-star restaurant. People are willing to pay more money for a steak they could buy in the grocery store, simply because they perceive it to be of “high value”. Therefore, if you receive exceptional service, it is only polite to tip, especially when you are knowledgeable about the taxes automatically paid on the server’s part. However, I have been in many restaurants where I felt that the other servers DID slack off. And when they made less money and complained, I didn’t feel bad because I certainly wasn’t the one sitting at the bar and reading the newspaper while my coworkers were running my food out. I do agree with Christine that the incentive to do a good job should be automatic, because without that incentive everybody would suck. However, I feel that this is also the responsibility of the employer, to provide training and incentive, despite the tips. Most restaurants train you to do certain things to boost a tip (like upsell, suggest desserts/appetizers), but they also train you to provide service that followed the company policy. And in my time serving, I have noticed that there is a certain percentage of people that will tip you the same no matter what you do. But I always remembered that just because I busted my ass for a mediocre tip, doesn’t mean that the next table will behave the same. But yes, people with “slack jobs” or “non-professional” don’t necessarily always deserve to get paid as well. But there are more examples of this, such as professional athletes, and Linkin Park. Should they really be receiving as much money as society feeds them? While people like Police Officers, Fire Fighters, Teachers, Construction Workers, etc. don’t receive as much as a stock broker? Anyhoo…whoever it was that brought the “jesus talk” into this, don’t mention the bible. That just isn’t a very efficient way to approach this debate. If God had never said “thou shalt not kill”, I’m pretty sure that that issue would have been dealth with similarly as now. Last time I checked, reason tells me not to steal because it hurts the economy, individuals, etc., not because I’ll be thrown into a fiery pit. Oh, and the promising thought of prison helps too…

January 2nd, 2006

Ben2 the Soldier thought this

Actually liberals take people’s money, they don’t give money away. I believe there was a study done that says conservatives tip more than liberals.

February 1st, 2007

Arnold the Virgin thought this

All Drug Laws suck. Even for Rush. Rights for all my friends or rights for nobody. WBR LeoP

March 8th, 2007

ProphetJoe the Irreverent chimed in with

Christopher said:
“2. And this is my issue because….. once again.. don’t like me not tipping.. then don’t be a waitress.”

But Chris — most people tip pretty well. I average 20%, but then again I’ve work in the food service industry part time for more than 25 years and have owned a restaurant.

Oh, and one more thing — when they see you come back the 3rd time, and they know you’re an “A-hole tipper”, they probably ARE spitting in your food — I just hope for Christine’s sake that it’s not a communal dish like pizza!

PJ

March 8th, 2007

ProphetJoe the Irreverent hunt n' pecked this

Christine got to you, eh?

March 9th, 2007

ProphetJoe the Irreverent commented

LOL You guys crack me up! This thread has been going since May 9th, 2005 (according to the post date, anyway) and you still don’t agree!

Christine, what is the foundation of your relationship?? I understand what it is for Christopher — after all, on your “about” page he *lovingly* refers to you as “the big-boobed blonde”, but what is the glue that keeps you in the relationship (well, aside from having a Republican man in your life)?

PJ

March 14th, 2007

ProphetJoe the Irreverent stated

Agreed! It’s always worked with my big-boobed blonde at home

March 16th, 2007

adam jones the Virgin penned this

I’m making a not of all this.

April 15th, 2007

adam jones the Virgin up'n wrote this

*note

April 15th, 2007

ProphetJoe the Irreverent quibbed this

Note to Adam — here are the only points you should take from this thread:

$5 tip rule =

Giving your big-bobbed lover multiple orgasms first =

April 16th, 2007

ProphetJoe the Irreverent commented

Take it from the big-boobed blonde girl… Prophet Joe is right on this one. (I hope this doesn’t jeopardize the priority of my orgasms -) )

1. I big-boobed blonde girls.
2. I giving them multiple orgasms.
1. I being Right!

I just hit the trifecta, baby!!!

April 16th, 2007

ProphetJoe the Irreverent thought this

Well, it IS good to be right, BUT there IS something to be said for being pleasured by a big-boobed blonde girl on her knees too!!!

So it’s tonight and in the morning!

Cheers All (and don’t forget to tip your waitress!)

April 16th, 2007

ProphetJoe the Irreverent commented

What’s my prize, sweetie?

April 17th, 2007

ProphetJoe the Irreverent pontificated

… or was it this =

If so, then

April 17th, 2007

ProphetJoe the Irreverent penned this

April 17th, 2007

ProphetJoe the Irreverent spake, and sayeth

If I “stiff my waitress” in a “hardcore sexual feat” sort of way, will she still be mad if I don’t leave her a tip?

My God, how many comments do I need before I’m in the top 10

April 17th, 2007

ProphetJoe the Irreverent scribbled

OK, I’ve made the Top 10 — seven to be exact — and I am now a Kingpin. Anyway, drove about an hour away to a classic German restaurant last night and had Bavarian Brats with German fried und potatoe cakes. Most excellent. Had I not been on my pain meds, I would have tried one of the brews… had I not been married, I would have “stiffed” my waitress later in the evening

May 23rd, 2007

ProphetJoe the Irreverent penned this

Ja, fraulein!

May 23rd, 2007

ProphetJoe the Irreverent hunt n' pecked this

I don’t think anyone (well, except maybe ‘topher when he’s in a “mood”) would accuse you of being dumb!

May 23rd, 2007

nATE the Virgin commented

I have been a waiter for years and tips should not be expected….. I feel happy when ever I receive any tip. The amount tipped should not be a % but what they feel there server earned. Of couse just because everyone feels they should earn more. Now I want everyone who is not a waiter go to your boss and demand 5% more. Really come on I earn about 100-150 a night in tips with some people not tipping and some people tipping well. But even if you didnt tip the first time and I see you again you will still great service because it is my duty.

July 16th, 2007

ProphetJoe the Irreverent scribbled

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I see ‘topher has been commenting under an alias again

July 17th, 2007

ProphetJoe the Irreverent stated

Christine said “No one can ever take that away from you… oh… and you get a tiara too. -) ”

Umm, I haven’t seen that tiara yet. Are you going to personally deliver it to me

July 17th, 2007

ProphetJoe the Irreverent uttered

NO! DId you insure it????

July 17th, 2007

Mara the Peacemaker added

Yeah, but the fact that the person, who chose to be a server, relies on tips that people give doesn’t entitle them to tips. I guess it’s the sense of entitlement that gets on my nerves. I tip and tend to tip very well…usually at least 25%, and more if I have the extra money. But I don’t do it because I feel like I have to or that I should. I do it because the person worked hard serving me food, drinks or whatever or they were extra nice which really made my day or what have you. It’s really quite arbitrary. And if the service is horrible, guess what? I don’t tip. I don’t tip 10% (which my roommate insists she should get if she’s been horrible), I tip nothing.

July 17th, 2007

ProphetJoe the Irreverent said this

“I don’t tip. I don’t tip 10% (which my roommate insists she should get if she’s been horrible), I tip nothing.”

I’m not clear, Mara. Is your roommate a waitress insisting she should earn 10% if she gave you lousy service, or is she a customer saying that the server deserves 10% just for trying??

Btw, I bet your and Christine’s don’t taste quite the same!

July 17th, 2007

Mara the Peacemaker hunt n' pecked this

My roommate thinks she should get a tip regardless of the quality of the service which is kind of stupid if tipping is based on that very concept. To her, if the service is lousy, she still gets 10%. I don’t work that way. If the service is lousy you don’t get anything. If the service is good, then I’m generous. If you go the extra mile, then I’m really generous.

“Btw, I bet your and Christine’s don’t taste quite the same!”

I doubt it since I don’t patron establishments that provide shitty service.

July 17th, 2007

Mara the Peacemaker commented

“Btw, I bet your and Christine’s don’t taste quite the same!”

I doubt it since I don’t patron establishments that provide shitty service.”

I realized this last post might have been misconstrued so in the interest of not wanting to offend, let me clarify. I am not suggesting that Christine patrons places with shitty service and I don’t. I meant that if I get crappy service, I don’t go back to that establishment.

July 17th, 2007

ProphetJoe the Irreverent thought this

Are you kidding me?? — Christine is with Christopher — of course they patronize shitty places!

July 17th, 2007

Mara the Peacemaker thought this

“BUT I know many more people who I’ve eaten with who don’t like to tip, who will find a reason why the service was bad (when it really wasn’t because I was sitting right there with them and nothing was wrong with it)”

I know people like this too but for me, if I don’t tip you at all, that means the service was really bad. It’s rare that I have service bad enough to where I won’t tip but it has happened. And for the server did, they really shouldn’t be surprised.

“Third, I don’t know what kind of extraordinary service Mara is getting that is “extra nice” and can make Mara’s day.”

Well, just doing things that are above and beyond that the server isn’t even required to do but they do it to be nice, to get a better tip or whatever. For example, I’m the queen of modifications. I’m that irritating customer that comes in and can’t order something directly off of the menu…I have to change it and the change usually isn’t as simple as “leave off the cheese.” But I have had servers who make sure that happens for me. So for those servers, I might leave 30% instead of the usual 20%. There’s a place where I eat lunch often and there is a server there who knows what I like…she always make sure that I get it. So I always leave her a generous tip above the standard 20. Stuff like that makes my day because they don’t have to do it, but they do.

“But the nature of the original post wasn’t really about not tipping if you get bad service– it was about not ever tipping at all.”

This is true.

July 17th, 2007

Mara the Peacemaker pontificated

Another example of above and beyond… I’m hypoglycemic and once, I went to a nice establishment with some friends. Because I hadn’t eaten on time, my blood sugar was incredibly low and I was really ill. I explained the situation to our server as soon as he came over to greet us, asked if he could bring something out right away with protein like cheese and some juice before he took our orders or did anything else. He did and actually came back with a grilled chicken breast and small salad which he didn’t charge us for. So when we paid the bill, I made sure I tipped him a litle extra than what is standard. For me, that’s above and beyond. He didn’t have to do that.

July 17th, 2007

Mara the Peacemaker uttered

Well, given the numbers of times my orders get screwed up, especially when the I want something different from what is on the menu or isn’t on tthe menu at all. Maybe it isn’t that hard for them to do but it’s something I appreciate when it’s done because oftentimes, I don’t get what I ordered. Maybe they do an extra step and make sure it’s what I asked for BEFORE they bring it to the table…maybe they don’t.

July 17th, 2007

ProphetJoe the Irreverent uttered

Yes, but was he blessed with those things because his mom and dad didn’t tip — thereby allowing them to pay for all of his whims?

Christine earlier said: “Okay… ??? I’m not sure why I’m being put in a position to defend where we eat, but I guess I will… ”

You’re having to defend where you eat because you’re with Christopher and we all know he’s cheap, so it stands to reason he takes you to the cheap places to eat!!

*just kidding — it was a lame joke. I’ll try harder next time*

July 19th, 2007

Mike the Groupie said this

Stand tough Chris, don’t tip. If you do tip, tip because the person did a good job, not because the showed up. Servers think they are gauranteed a tip. Sorry, i’m not paying you extra because you decided a job in the food service industry would be a better idea than an education. You’re not getting extra money from me if my drink goes dry, plates should have been cleared or it takes you forever to come check on me because you’re busy messing around with your co-workers.
If your pay sucks, you need to take that up with your manager, or hey here’s an idea, get a real job.

And pizza drivers, here’s a tip. Don’t show up to my house in an ‘07 gt mustang and give me a pissy look when i dont give you an extra 2 bucks for doing your job. It’s not my fault that you got into car payments you can’t handle and have to work a job primarily staffed by teens and people with downs syndrome

July 24th, 2007

Veronica the Virgin commented

Get a life people. I’m a waitress and I don’t even care this much.

August 13th, 2007

ProphetJoe the Irreverent asserted

Veronica said: “Get a life people. I’m a waitress and I don’t even care this much.”

As someone who has worked in the food industry for over 25 years, I think I can safely predict that, as a waitress and/or an employee, you suck at your job. The only waitresses I’ve known who didn’t care about this issue… well, they just didn’t care about being a waitress. They didn;t care what the customer wanted. They didn’t care what the manager wanted. They just didn’t care, period.

…and THAT sucks! But then again, I like a head waitress…

August 14th, 2007

Mara the Peacemaker uttered

Does anyone else see the irony in Veronica’s suggestion that we have no lives while simultaneously posting on this site?

August 15th, 2007

ProphetJoe the Irreverent stated

Mara, just what are you and Veronica suggesting??

August 16th, 2007

A Turkishman in NY the Virgin pontificated

all for the waiters , & my for the waiters. Their job isn’t easy as it seems to be. I haven’t read all of your comments. But i have to add something. I want to have a good service from the waiters. If i want it to be done, the waiters have to be waiting for me. I mean the tip should be good everytime. So when i enter in a restaurant they should be happy for seing me again. If you want to be happy you have to give a smile on other peoples faces. A bartenders kind and friendly greeting gets you the mood you won’t be able to get in hours you spend in that place. Who ever serves you good wishes to be & has to be congratulated on their effort. You know that you even want this for yourself. Whether a nice tip or compliments to their boss about how lucky that they are having this talent. Generosity coming from your heart would mean alot.

November 17th, 2007

Same Turkish dude in reply the Virgin added

This is for everyone that had not watched the ‘reservoir dogs’ yet, as i haven’t. I just saw a few minutes of it at a friends house before we leave. In the begining of the movie the carascters were arguing on this same subject just as word by word on this page. I wish i had seen or watched it all. Anyway. i will say some more, regarding my respect to bartenders and waiters. They have to stand up always while working. They don’t have a seat under them while working like a groccery cashier, airport customer representative or the guy in the bank. Anybody who earns thier money while sitting on their seat doesn’t deserve a tip, because they are not doing a work that can be tiring for a tip as reward. If they did as waiters, you’d have to tip the governors and even presidents for working while sitting. And those ones at the groceries cashier, the one who sell tickets at the theatre, airport representative & the guy in bank are doing their job as they are the owner of the workplace. They have a little bit of a power against the customer. They can decide not to serve you. They can even get rude against you. But the waiters and the bartenders don’t have that power.
On this tipping matter i have one more thing to say. I enjoy being remembered by waitress, waiters or bartenders, when i go to a fancy restaurant or a bar with friends & people i care.

November 19th, 2007

Same Turkish dude in reply the Virgin pontificated

As i read i find more to say on this subject. We all are in a race in life. It’s more important for us to eat fast and leave early from the restaurant or bar. Waiting in traffic bothers me, i wish there were someone i could tip to make it run faster or open a lane for me to get away. i’d even tip the cops if they could do that. But they can’t. So i’d tip the ones who can get me few cars ahead in the start by serving fast drinks or food. Arriving home earlier is worth for a few tip instead of stucking in traffic longer.

November 19th, 2007

Same Turkish dude in reply the Virgin thought this

We might still be tipping the valet for a time saving (not wasting time to find a place to park the car) related reason. For valets, i must agree that they are sitting and waiting until i get out from the restaurant. They are still sitting with the comfort of my own car while he does his job and bring me my car from where they parked. So this gets me to a confused point in the tipping matter. But still i tip the vale. It might be a safety related issue in mind. Parking lot may give the insurance for the safety of the car while it’s parked, but afterwards is only in the hands of the valet. Also the girl selling roses saves time in a situation when the lady craves for a rose right in the middle of a romantic dinner (btw i admitt, that rose should be bought for saving the romantic atmosphere no matter how much it costs). Tipping the towel handling guy might still be about time saving but i am not exactly sure.
The rolercoaster carine is working there for this safety related issue. His job requires to check the safety of the customer. Also cops & lifeguards are paid for the same safety reason and it’s their job. So i shall not tip them. If he doesn’t save my life in time, lifeguarding does not mean anything. It also can’t be done faster. You save or i die. Nothing to tip in between. Also traffic cops are working for the safety in traffic & they do not concern about the speed of the traffic. If they could get me an advantage against other cars in the traffic jam, i’d love to tip them too. But they can’t do that.
As a company works like a clock; If you want your workers to work overtime, you have to pay them. But do they get p/hr at the same rates: i think not. maybe they are tipping in a little and overtime hours might cost a little more to the company, but it doesn’t matter cause the work has to be done in time.
So i might say that tipping issue is a little problem about ourself & ourtime. If we want to ease something or make it done faster i believe we have to pay(tip) accordingly.
I think i can tip in for being remembered for a fast service, instead of being remembered as a trouble guy, if i have to wait a long period of time in a full restaurant until the waiter has time to remember bringing my food to me before my order got cold.
Who ever said that time is money has said it right. You can gain (save) more time when you can. By spending (tipping) accordingly. But you can’t gain any when life comes to end, even if you pay all your fortune.
I wish everyone to have a nice workday & a nice evening after work today.

November 20th, 2007

ProphetJoe the Irreverent penned this

Umm, that would be me… and frankly, I’m as insulted as Christine (is) that you can’t tell the 2 of us apart!

November 20th, 2007

Same Turkish dude in reply the Virgin thought this

I am not tring to insult anyone. I am not tring to change anybodies mind. If anybody offend, forgive me. I am also sorry for writing that i have alittle to say & write alot about it. But sometimes i can’t find exact words to disrcibe what i am trying to say and the explaination takes longer in writing. I am just telling my own oppinions on the subject. This is what i think on tipping subject. Anybody who adds good in my life deserves to be treated good. So; faster than normal serving waiters and bartenders or even valets save time in my life, so i tip them. Not much. i am the one to deside at the amount. I do tip as i wish.

November 20th, 2007

ProphetJoe the Irreverent quibbed this

Wow… more than 2 months since anyone has commented on Christopher’s tipping habits.

January 22nd, 2008

Same Turkish dude in reply the Virgin pontificated

I am not sure. The subject might got cold mean while. Want to spice it up? Would you tip a repairman that told you it would take 2 weeks to fix aproblem in your house for $450 before starting, but it takes 9 days and 250 bucks to do it for less than estimated? In a thought i would. Maybe 50$, but i think i would.

January 31st, 2008

Same Turkish dude in reply the Virgin stated

Still the time saving issue. Staying in hotel or relatives definately would cost me more. But on the second thought it might not be 50$. between 20 to 50. I believe for 50$ the next problem in my house should be examined right after afew hours i make the call to the repairman.

I’d love to be tipped to shut up sooner, if any one would like to tip some…
)

January 31st, 2008

Same Turkish dude in reply the Virgin pontificated

Just as you compaired regular ground services and 24hr overnight delivery service. You pay for the things you’d like to be done fast. But when it’s done properly and in time or even faster you don’t feel like to tip. This is some different view of yours than mine. The repairman could have kept it look like workin up to 2 weeks and bill me as we agreed on 450$. But instead he show some decency to let me know that the work will be done quicker, and not even that; it will cost me less than i expected. For this kindness in my world he deserves a kind of tip. Also the waiters. If they do their job fast they’ll get the tip from me. I already pay alot of money to a breakfast ( lunch ordinner) that i could have at home by wasting alot of my time,for maybe less than %20 of the bill that she’ll bring. This is my view on the subject. Ofcourse you (and I) pay high amounts for a good service. But don’t you think it could be better? Wouldn’t you pay to the restaurant if it were better? Why don’t you think to pay that to the waiter that makes it happen for you?

February 1st, 2008

Same Turkish dude in reply the Virgin remarked

About firing the waiter or the waitresses… if you ask this question to managers of services (even any job these days) they’d all agree on that they would fire the crappy workers and get a new good working one at that instand you inform your displeasedness. You’d be kind to show your pleasedness either telling the manager that you are happy about the service of the employee or tip in something to make’em happy too.

February 1st, 2008

Same Turkish dude in reply the Virgin chimed in with

As long as our tipping arguments continue, i’ll squeeze a little more in between. I don’t like the musicians that come and play on my table before i seem like i enjoy the thing that they are playing. As long as i suffer while they play, they wait to get some tip and they don’t. I do not want to be served unless i like to. There is an accordion player in the place we generally eat our dinner in Istanbul/Turkey. One day I’ll learn how to do it and play him things he could not even try to learn and make him mad as he makes me mad everytime.

February 1st, 2008

Same Turkish dude in reply the Virgin added

Chris & i live other sides of the world. Other countries & this causes a little trouble. I agree it should be the way that you say. i live in a country (Turkey) that your personal rights are still not easy to access. I know i have something but i am not sure weather what is it and how or where to use it. Even i know that i have a right to get information from governing offices but i don’t like to fill in the forms with lost of questions as ”Why do you want this info & what are you gonna do with it?”. I think when you have something its good (definitely better than not having, way better than not being sure of what you got or how to use it), but having something alot is also causing trouble. Forexample Chris can be sued for harrasment for saying something wrong while buying pass to metro by the ticket lady. In Turkey the ticket lady would personally (& directly swear at you). People became more selfish & self centered in the last decade. I am not saying this to Chris. The idea of tipping is not wrong. But personally i enjoy the gainings of my previous tippings these days. The best example is my second visit to a bar and the bartender remembers who i am welcomes me personally. this greeting got me a regular attendent image against all the people in the bar & it was easier to get in meeting with new friends. Also the waiters/waitress that i had tipped previously remember me, my regular food & drink (sometimes my food starts to be plated before they come to ask to be sure if i’ll have the same regular food), what i like and what i’d like the service to be. So this is also nice when you consider. And i did not loose too much money because of this. I sometimes call and use these advantages of tipping & being known (being remembered) for reservations and i’m enjoying it. So this is my look on the tipping issue. I believe this is all from me folks… Best wishes for all of you.

February 1st, 2008

Mael Diabolus the Groupie pontificated

For the record: 20% is my minimum. I will sometimes tip up to 40% to 50%, depending upon the size of the bill.

February 18th, 2008

Sonya the Virgin commented

Been reading this blog for like 2 years now. Kudos to you both and keep up the great…”blogging” I guess.

I’m not sure if this was already pointed out and I missed it or not, but it should be mentioned anyway.

If we the US switch to the European system and pay the servers higher wages, being a capitalist nation, our restaurant corporations and restaurant owners would simply raise the prices of their menu items to offset this additional cost.

In the end, it’s still more money coming out of your pockets as the consumer or the diner. The only difference is that instead of you leaving a few bucks on the table, you are paying a few extra dollars in your total ticket cost for the meal. The money ends up in the restaurant’s “register”, if you will, and then later is redistributed to the server in the form of a higher wage. How is this really different than you tipping the server directly?

It removes any thought on your part - which I agree makes for a more pleasant experience, but if you’re still paying say…an additional 10% for your meal and it goes to your ticket total instead of the server, only for it to later be distributed to the server in their wages via paycheck, then what is the f*cking difference? What is the difference between that and tipping? It’s still the same dollars coming out of your pocket, except with higher wages, that’s practically akin to a forced tip….in the form of higher food prices.

And all restaurants would follow suit - because they are all businesses and do what they must to maximize their profit margins. Prices would simply be raised to offset the gov’t forcing them to pay higher wages. These higher prices translate to you the consumer, and we’re back to square one. Nothing has really “changed” except you just pay the bill and go on your way, but you’re still technically paying what you might be “expected” to pay under our current tipping system.

Consider: $20 for a meal, no tip because it’s reflected in higher food price…or $15 for a meal and a $5 dollar tip (if the server was good). It’s all the same nonsense in my book, just with differing bureaucracies/annoyances.

March 18th, 2008

Sonya the Virgin pontificated

Christine,

I actually do favor the higher wage system vs. tipping. I was trying to point out to…someone…that the amount of dollars of the transaction which would be expected to be paid is roughly the same (whether through more expensive food, or cheaper food + tip).

I am a former waitress (note the word: former) - I will not be returning to the restaurant industry for reasons everyone here has already gone over.

My point in my post was actually to point out to Christopher that even if the system changed, he’d still be paying roughly the same dollar amount through a standard wage system vs. the tipping system. Of course, he chooses not to tip or tip low or whatever, but I’m saying that he would be shelling out more money — it would just cover a higher cost of food, which is there due to restaurants adjusting prices in order to pay their staff higher wages.

In my opinion if people are griping about a tip then they shouldn’t be visiting a restaurant — but I wonder if these same people would be willing to visit their favorite restaurant if the food was 5-10 dollars more expensive (due to higher wages).

I feel as though you are paying for extra services. Servers by no means should “expect” a tip - the “optional” tip is the reason you work extra hard, show up to work looking nice, and go the extra mile to insure the customer has a good time and their meal is excellent.

One of the things I forgot to mention which you Christine probably know about since you used to waitress too, is the dead shift factor. With a higher wage system in place, theoretically if you’re not “cut” from the crew and forced to stay until close or end of your shift, you are still getting paid decently for the time you are at the restaurant. With the current tipping system you’re not even making minimum wage in some states! No wonder the restaurant industry has such a high turnover rate….which in turns leads to shitty service…which in turn leads to people who don’t want to tip. Personally I have no problems with more expensive food.

Most people do not “know” how to tip - it requires too much though. Switching systems would make things easier, but how many people would balk about the rising prices in a restaurant? There’s always going to be people who complain one way or another.

March 21st, 2008

Mara the Peacemaker chimed in with

Well, what is meant by “knowing” how to tip? What is there to “know?” Either a person wants to tip and is going to or they are not.

March 24th, 2008

Mara the Peacemaker scribbled

Sonya,
I don’t think the gripe with tipping is necessarily about the total amount of money being paid, that is, there is no difference in amount between paying for a meal that is $15 or paying $8 and tipping $7. I think it comes down to the principle of feeling like one HAS to tip or that a server is entitled to a tip. There’s a fundamental difference in the arguments. From my understanding, Christopher objects more to the latter view (as do I) — he doesn’t feel like he owes the server a tip. So in that scenario, I think people who share this view would still visit restaurants if the food was $5 to $10 higher.

As for whether a person is paying for extra services, that depends on the beholder. In my view, the server is not an independent contractor so I’m not paying them for an additional service. They are merely doing what they were hired by the restaurant to do. But I could go and on about my feelings on tipping and they’ve been well documented on this particular blog. But I will say this: I think most arguments in favor of coerced tipping in a nutshell are merely fictions created to make people feel like they should or have to tip. And most of them are not compelling. I’ve heard everything from the server is like an independent contractor (on another site there were some pretty creative arguments as to why I implicitly personally hire a server when I sit down in a restaurant) to I should subsidize the server’s earnings because in a lot of states they make a server’s wage (I think these are based on some moral grounds that somehow don’t translate to other minimum wage jobs).

March 24th, 2008

ProphetJoe the Irreverent remarked

Having worked in the food service industry for over 20 years (both as an employee and as an owner), I can tell you that “server wages” are the weirdest thing I’ve ever encountered with my clothes on.

We systematically cut an employees wages because we (correctly) assume that s/he will “make it up in tips” and then we tax him/her on what we estimate they should make in those tips… WTF? Why don’t we do this we pro athletes or movie stars too? I mean, we can surely expect them to make more in their action figure sales or sports endorsements, can’t we? Why don’t we just cut their salary to $1? Alas, it *is* a very strange marketplace sometimes…

HI MARA!! Sonya is right about “knowing” how to tip — most people still tip about 15% and, sadly, they cannot figure out how to calculate that amount. The last restaurant where I worked had the credit card machine programed to print what 15%, 18% and 20% of the total was on the paper tape (under the signature line). That way people didn’t have to “think” about it so much… duh.

March 25th, 2008

American Dental Association the Virgin scribbled

I have a tip for ya!

Brush and floss daily.

This thread made my eyes bleed. I honestly have no clue why I read the entire thing lol. I guess I have too much time on my hands.

May 21st, 2009

ProphetJoe the Irreverent commented

I miss Christopher and his witty banter…

June 4th, 2009

ProphetJoe the Irreverent added

I miss Christine and her sage advice… and great tits.

October 16th, 2009