Christine the Lioness (3122)
Christopher the Pyro (1985)
ProphetJoe the Irreverent (1234)
Trouble the Pirate (600)
Keith the Director (573)
Mara the Peacemaker (532)
eric the Lil' Devil (351)
AJ the Zen Master (305)
Ben the Kingpin (213)
Haas the Addict (187)
Christine 2 the Mercenary (131) Lei the Mercenary (124) Katie the Mercenary (115)
Ben2 the Soldier (56) Christopher the Pyro commented
1. Fuckem, if they don’t like getting paid what they make without tips then they shoudln’t be serving food, if a lawyer didn’t like the money then he wouldn’t be lawyering.
2. And this is my issue because….. once again.. don’t like me not tipping.. then don’t be a waitress.
3. OMG, I’m sensing a theme.. don’t like it.. then either lobby your congressman, or get an education and a new job, it is not my job to spend my hard earned cash to support your stupid ass.
4. I guess Christine is just realizing that life isn’t fair.. I’m still not convinced.
5. ya ya yada yada, these people get paid to cook me food, serve me food and clean the tables, they should do their job without needing extra incentive from me.
AND FINALLY…. Stop being such a fucking socialist it is not your responsiblity to distribute your wealth, you can eat out a whole lot more if you stop tipping all together… now.. i’m not saying there arn’t times when you shoudl tip.. if you get EXTREMELY good service of if you have an ultra hot waitress.. I see both of those reasons for giving a small tip.. in the 5% to 8% range…. but generally my feeling on this is people should do their job for what they are paid.. if they don’t like it they should find another job.
Christine the Lioness spake, and sayeth
Okay, Christopher… next time I call you at work, just pass me on to your boss. I’ll let him know you don’t need any more of the Christmas bonuses… ‘cuz you’re right. No one needs any extra incentive to do their job well.
Matt the Groupie remarked
This is why the UK system is much better. The waiters/waitresses get paid at least minimum wage, so they’re making money whatever. So they have a perfect incentive to work hard, because if they give me good service, I’m going to tip them well. If they’re crap, then they don’t get shit. The US is arse about face, because they’re expecting to get a tip anyway, so they don’t work as hard, I get shoddy service and begrudge having to give a tip. I remember the first time I went to New York. I bought us a round of drinks and that was that. Then my brother told me I had to drop another 3 or 4 dollars as a tip for the barman. Just ‘cos he poured me a couple of lousy drinks. Nope, your system is screwy.
Christopher the Pyro spake, and sayeth
Matt.. your right and only people who do a little to much crack… (hint: Christine) think it is not completely wacky.
Christine the Lioness remarked
That’s all great and wonderful, but we’re in the U.S. not Europe. In Canada, they don’t have to pay co-payments when they go to the doctor. That doesn’t mean you can expect to walk into your doctor’s office here and not have to pay for the service. So how about if we forget what the rest of the world does (since it’s completely irrelevant) and focus on what’s happening in the U.S…
Christopher acts like I created this system or have some control over whether we keep it or institute the system they use in Europe. Little surprise for ya– I don’t. I’m just explaining how it works here — since apparently a lot of people weren’t aware of this– and explaining why it is so important to tip. By the way… if you haven’t heard any of the horror stories about waiters spitting (or doing worse) in peoples’ food who come back to the same restaurant after not tipping the time before, I can tell you that many of them are probably true. I like to be able to return to a restaurant without wondering if there’s something in my food or drink that won’t kill me, but shouldn’t be there.
Christopher the Pyro stated
Not tipping is no different then not shopping at wallmart because you don’t support their policies.. either way your hurting the employee in someway. By tipping you are enabling the U.S system so while you may not have invented it.. you are enabling it. I think it is much more likely to have someone spit in your food when you upset about nothing.. like your french fries being a little warm instead of scalding hot.. or if your sandwhich has lettece and you didn’t want it to.. then by not tipping after you have already gotten your food. What I’m saying is you get your food spit in or worst because your a pain in the ass… not because you don’t tip.
Brad the Virgin scribbled
Not tipping a waiter/waitress that makes shit money and works their ass off in a thankless job is NOTHING like not shopping at Wal-mart. Wal-mart employees don’t work for tips and if you don’t shop there you’re not hurting those employees. Plus Wal-mart is such a huge corporation that if even if Chris doesn’t shop there I’m going to guess they still make a huge profit.
Now if you get great service and leave a shitty tip or no tip then you are fucking over a PERSON not a CORPORATION.
You may think if someone doesn’t like it then quit. You’re right. But a lot of waiters/waitresses are students or recent graduates or single moms…just people trying to get by until they have a real job. So, in the mean time you should fuck these people over because they haven’t made it yet?
Your whole arguement about enabling is absurd. It’s tipping dude not alcoholism.
I agree that waiters are some of the many people that get fucked by the federal government on a daily basis but that doesn’t mean because Chris decides not to tip that the policies will suddenly change. The only thing you’re enabling when you tip is the waiter’s faith in humanity and his ability to pay rent and eat.
Be a good person and tip.
Christine the Lioness pontificated
You go, Brad!
Christopher the Pyro thought this
Brad
Couple things.
Your right if I don’t shop at wall-mart they are stil going to be profitable but if everybody stops then they are getting fucked.
Also, if I don’t tip and everybody stops tipping then food establishments will be force to start paying higher wages because waiters and waitress will have to start taking jobs that pay them more.. it’s simple supply and demand. I’m guessing that you being the (slimly liberal you are) cannot support the Presidents policies in Iraq I can respect you think your making a difference by not support it.
I cannot in good faith continue to support this racket called tipping.. it just morally unacceptable and even if I’m not making a difference, that doesn’t make it ok to support something that is clearly fucked up.
As for having a heart, Chrisitine will attest to the fact that I do not have one, so there is clearly no hope for me, I have been consumed by the dark side.
Brad the Virgin chimed in with
Chris, Chris, Chris,
You are a funny, funny guy. I especially enjoyed the “slimy liberal” comment (I’m sorry I mean slimly libera”. I guess you think I’m svelt)
Yeah, isn’t it slimy to care about helping people.
So, you think that if you just up and stopped tipping that would change the system? That’s like saying if I don’t vote then Bush won’t be President. But the evil fuck IS President and food servers STILL work their butts off for shit pay. The tipping system has been in place for a long time. It’s not changing anytime soon (regardless of how many careless fucks don’t tip). It actually doesn’t need to change. There are few people that make careers out of food serving. The draw to it has a lot to do with getting tips. It’s much better to have cash everyday then to wait for a paycheck. But servers get taxed on the tips so the paychecks are tiny. The tip money is the money that is used to pay bills, eat, get gas..etc. Call it socialism if you want but sharing to me is called being a decent human being.
You also need to slow your roll on your liberal smack talk. Keep in mind that every single progressive movement in this country that made it better was a “liberal” cause. Such as Women’s Rights (okay I know you don’t suppport this one)
How about the civil rights movement? Martin Luther King was a huge liberal. What a whiny dick huh?
Hey, let’s look up liberal and conservative in the dictionary:
Liberal, n. 1. favoring progress or reform 2. free from prejudice; tolerant. 3. characterized by generosity 4. ample or abundent. 5. not strict or literal 7. a person of liberal principles (which are 1-6)
Conservative n. disposed to preserve existing positions, institutions, etc, and limit change. 2. cautiously moderate. 3. traditional in style or manner
Now which one of these people would you want to hang with? The cool progressive thinker or the uptight, set-in-his-ways, judgemental douche bag?
Plus the change you propose to the tipping system would qualify you as liberal. OH, THE HORROR!!!
Look Chris, I met you and know you’re not a douche bag so just agree with me this one time. OK? I promise I won’t tell anyone you have a heart. Deal?
Christine the Lioness said this
Brad… I agree with you completely. I would much rather give some hard-working guy who serves me food a tip so he can pay his rent and take his girlfriend out to a movie, than have it taken away from me by the government under the guise of paying my taxes– in which a portion will undoubtedly be used to fund welfare (a system that is as broken as social security and rewards people who don’t work at all). So… don’t worry Brad. Christopher is morally opposed to taking me out to dinner more than once a month, and when he does, I supplement the tip without him knowing it. 
Christopher the Pyro up'n wrote this
Brad,
On the topic of being a decent human being, tipping or not tipping doesn’t make or break me in that department, (beating the shit out of Christine every night might be damning to and eternity of fire and brimstone but not not tipping. The fact is people choose to be take jobs in the food establishments, it shouldn’t be a career. Would I rather give my money to someone who needs it then the U.S government in the form of taxes.. of course but since that isn’t always possible, I do what is in my own best interest which is not tipping is unless I deem otherwise. (I tip well at a strip bar because it is in my dicks best interest).
Here is the thing, if we became less of a fucked up society and stopped pissing money away on illigals, welfair cheaters, and every other broken social program that costs this country insane amounts of money (workers comp, overtime, ect) then the food establishments could afford and would pay more, but untill we get rid of our illigal immigrant issues that’s not going to happen because if you have 10% of the U.S population not paying taxes then they can afford to work for less then minimual wages.
Don’t know you that well but in terms of your political views your misguided at best, you would do well to spend some time educating yourself on the ideals of liberalism and conservatism, might I suggest a non-partison informational bank that you can check out “here”:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberalism
and if you want to focus just on American Liberalism look “here”:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberalism_in_the_United_States
I think you will find that your above definition shows a sever lack of overall understanding of political ideologies, motives and that isn’t bad most people just regurgitate what they hear on the radio, or read in a book, but history and real life is more complex then that.
Anybody who knows me knows I walk a liberal line on somethings and conversative line on others but most definitily I spend a great deal of time understanding different points of views, so I can broaden my own and hopefully be a more intelligent person. Your right.. hrmm maybe I would want to hang out with people who are not judgemental.. but then I wouldn’t be able to hang out with people who think conservatives are judgemental douche bags… (that sounds pretty judgemental to me.. but maybe when a liberal is judgemental it is considered progressive lol)
I would take the time to beat you down more, but since you seem intelligent I think if you educate yourself you’ll realize your realize that being a liberal is just as bad as being a conservative, real answers and solutions are found some where inbetween on all subjects.
Brad the Virgin chimed in with
Chris,
If you want to brag about how intelligent you are then it’s probably a good idea to spell welfare and illegals correctly.
You’re right about one thing. You don’t know me very well.
Your arguements are just as one sided as anyones. You are THAT worried about illegals? Join the minutemen then and you can share the hate and bigotry with others that think like you do.
I am very well informed. I don’t just repeat what I hear on the radio or read. I actually don’t even have a radio. I also try to look at all sides and weigh the FACTS and come up with my own very well informed opinion.
I sent you the most simple definitions of liberal and conservative from Webster’s. That doesn’t show my lack of understanding for them. And you linking Wikipedia the online Encyclopedia does not prove you are more enlighted one bit dude.
Here is some real reading you need to do before you get on your soap box again:
“What Liberal Media?” by Eric Alterman
“The Best Democracy Money Can Buy” by Greg Palast
“Pefectly Legal” by David Kay Johnston
Anything and everything by Noam Chomsky
“Perpetual War for Perpetual Peace” by Gore Vidal
The Guardian UK
Truthout.com
These are just a few very well researched and respected sources for unfiltered truth.
Now I don’t know you either but from reading some of your posts on here your views sound about as broad as a puddle.
As so what if I call judgemental people douche bags. If I judge judgemental people than that makes me judgemental? Okay, whatever. I do judge people but I don’t try to change their lives if I don’t agree -unlike conservatives who want to bend EVERYONE to their thinking/views. Now both my parents in Nebraska are huge conservatives and though I love them dearly I feel their views of the world are very limited.
You also didn’t beat me down. Don’t flatter yourself. I am intelligent and I have educated myself. You should try it.
I will agree that both extremes of liberalism and conservatism suck and I don’t think anyone can be exclusively one thing (except for maybe Pat Robertson) but if you want to claim that you walk a liberal line then fucking act like it. That means drop your whole machismo whiteboy victim mentality.
Christine the Lioness pontificated
I’d enter this interesting little thread you two have going, but with all the mud-slinging going on here, I’m afraid I’d get dirty. And I’m wearing a new skirt.
Rob the Soldier spake, and sayeth
Hey Brad,
If you are going to be picky about spelling, I would suggest that you spell the word arguments correctly (Hint, hint, it isn’t arguements). Although Chris tries everything he can to sound like an asshole (and only convinces the occasional stranger), it seems to me that you might really be an asshole. All of your talk about being intelligent and educated makes clear that you are not. I do have a few tips, though, so that in the future you do not look as stupid as you do to the entire audience of chrisvschris.com at this particular moment:
1. Don’t ever pick on grammar or spelling in the blogsphere.
2. If you do break rule one, make goddamn sure that you do not misspell any really easy words, like argument or anyone’s (not anyones, but this is a very common mistake, so I understand why you might be prone to making it).
3. Never get sucked into an argument with Chris. There is an old proverb that applies in this case:
Never wrestle with a pig, because you both get tired and dirty, but the pig loves it.
So, I hope that my advice (and VERY gentle criticism) has been helpful.
Take care, and get a dictionary,
Rob
Christine the Lioness up'n wrote this
Boys, Boys, Boys (and I’m including you, too, Rob)… How about we stop with all the snide little digs about spelling and unnecessary name calling and the rest of the first-grade bullshit insults and actually get back to the issue of either tipping, or liberalism vs. conservatism. I know all three of you– being the intelligent people you are (although I’m not sure anyone else would agree with that by reading any of your comments here)– probably have something interesting and thought-provoking to say on both topics. So how about you all put your dicks back in your pants and say something worth listening to before you piss me off and I end up having to take it out on Christopher by depriving him of the X-Box he thinks I’m buying for him. And if you don’t, I’m going to call all of your mommies and have you sent home.
Rob the Soldier up'n wrote this
No Christine, this is not about either my dick, or tipping, but spelling and grammar. Nothing pisses me off more than a self-proclaimed intelligent man who cannot spell and picks on other people for it!!! There is nothing more important than this.
Christopher the Pyro quibbed this
Brad,
I would have responded sooner but Rob stole all my good material by already pointing out to you that you cannot critique someone for being a bad speller and then go on to spell words wrong… maybe you should also check out this post on “spelling”:http://www.chrisvschris.com/2005/03/17/spelling-not-so-important/ and realize of all the people in the world.. insulting my inablity to spell.. isn’t a good insult.
Since we are such a progressive and openminded blog I wanted to make sure I took time to study the books and websites you sent me (I have read a couple of them already) so I could get a feel the type of books that you feel are “very well researched”. A few notes, just because someone can write a book that is “researched” does not mean it does not slant or omits facts that would show a balanced and full point of view. For example “What Liberal Media” is obviously a slanted liberal book reading that type of book does nothing but reenforce what you want to believe as a liberal.. there are few issues when it comes to the media that I believe to be true, #1 Corporations run the news media which would give the news a pro business / conservative slant and most reporters are liberals which gives the news a liberal slant.. there are exceptions Fox News is more conservative then straight unbiased news, but CBS is more liberal then straight unbiased news, there is news for all walks of life and if you can’t see bias or don’t believe it is there… not much I can say to you except that it is there and just because someone write a book about it not being there doesn’t mean it isn’t.. it is very much in liberals best interest to disarm this idea that the media is not biased toward them, so if I was a liberal writer I would write a book about that.
Was your point to show me how well rounded and unbiased you are by sourcing liberal books and websites? No objective person would seriously believe that truthout.com is anything close to a researched or unbiased website. You might want to check “factcheck.org”:http://www.factcheck.org to find unbiased and researched information all though I warn you some of it might disagree with your “well thought out preconceived notions”, at least that was the case for me on a variety of subjects.
I probably won’t start getting my news from a European news agency no matter how many people recommend it (which rob will) because I am an American and I believe America should do what is in Americana best interest plain and simple so I really don’t give a shit what the Brits, Germans or anybody else in Europe thinks of America.. and reading European news is just gives us a European slant.. so unless you already read a few different new sources on the same story.. just getting your news from the brits is really no different then just getting it from cnn or foxnews, and it’s not like the Europeans are actually any smarter the the Americans at running their countries unless you think Germany is doing a great job with their 15% unemployment… I mean there is a reason why Europe became irrelevant over the years.. (mostly their own inability to run their own countries effectively).. I’m digressing..
I am concerned about illegal’s.. I think we should do a lot more to stop the problems with “illegal’s that Christine talked about “:http://http://www.chrisvschris.com/2005/05/15/propping-the-back-door-open/ do I have a problem with the minute men.. no they are being activist and trying to solve a very big issues without violence and they are not breaking any law. If you can give me a reason why doing a job that the U.S government is failing to do by any measurement means they are hateful and bigots I would love to know.. I mean it is in all Americans best interest to have the 10-20 MILLION ILLEGAL people removed, it is a major strain on our system that contributes to bad education, health care crowding, crime and drug use. Tell me if I am not for allowing people to walk across the boarder I am being a bigot.
I usually don’t like to tell someone they are flat out wrong but you are wrong about the types of people who are judgemental.. everybody is judgemental and everybody would like to have people agree with them. If you think for one second that conservatives are any different then liberals in this way you are just being blind to reality. The only difference is that conservatives are judgemental on different things then liberals and if you are a liberal your offended by the things conservatives are judgemental about and if your a conservative your offended by the things liberals are judgemental about.
Someone who is for animal rights wants me to change my opinion about.. eating veal or declawing a kitty just as much as a conservative wants you to change a liberals point of view on welfare. Your just not realizing that liberals want to change all conservative points of views just on different things. There is a part of our population that wants everybody to be religious which non-religious people find offensive and then feel the need to judge everybody who is religious or conservative as trying to make everybody that way.. that’s just not true. There are just as many conservative religious people who don’t give a flying fuck what anybody else thinks about God or their faith as long as they are free to practice and believe what they want. There is a group of liberals in this country that think everybody should be against the war in Iraq and want to change everybody’s opinions who disagree’s with them about the war in Iraq at any cost.. instead of educating themselves about, “war and politics in general”:http://www.chrisvschris.com/2005/03/07/bush-the-worst-president-ever/ they instead just decide that anybody who agree’s with the war in Iraq is stupid hick which is awful fucking judgemental and really just shows their arguments can’t hold up for more then 30 seconds of intelligent debate. Simply speaking if I was a religious person and I handed you a Bible and said read this and educate yourself that is absolutely no different then you sending me 10 titles of liberal propaganda and websites and telling me to educate myself.
As for how I am on this site, and for walking a liberal line.. this site is a humor site, sometimes we delve into the realm seriousness when either Christine or I are really upset about something but generally speaking it’s not too serious except for the 30% of our readership that take everything we say to heart…. I walk a very liberal line on some things for example education.. but I won’t be a liberal or a conservative because people tell me being one or the other will make me a better person.. the only thing I care about is our country and having policies that are in America’s best interest regardless of if they are liberal or conservative.
AND CHRISTINE… Listen when grown folks are talking.. stay the fuck out of the conversation unless we give you permission to speak.
Crystal the Soldier stated
We had this discussion tonight. We took the kids to Pizza Hut, because my 3 YEAR OLD twins love nothing more in this world than pizza. The bill was $25.75, and I tipped $5. The hubs nearly choked when I told him. I’m like “Dude, that waitress has to put up with all kinds of shit there, I mean it’s not exactly high class. She was good, our order was filled quickly, she checked on us, did a good job. I tried to clean up most of the mess in there, but she has to clean up after OUR kids. She doesn’t deserve 20%?? I’d want 20% for that.” He finally agreed.
Christine the Lioness asserted
God bless you, Crystal, for being the kind of parent and patron who actually realizes that their kids make a mess and does something to take care of it. In college, I waited tables in a rather expensive, upscale restaurant and people would bring their kids in there and it would literally look like a tornado hit the place and most of them didn’t do a single thing about trying to at least contain the mess.
I’m glad your husband saw the light on that… Christopher (as you can see from most of his posts) doesn’t listen to a word I say.
Crystal the Soldier got all philosophical
Kids in a high class restaurant? What’s wrong with these people? I’ve seen the damage my kids can do in McDonald’s, I’m not trying to take them for some fine dining. Poor, naive Chris, he should take a job as a waiter, just for one month, to see what a bitch it really can be. After that he should barback, since not tipping your bartenders means those poor barbacks aren’t getting squat either. If you don’t want to tip, why not eat at home?
Christopher the Pyro spake, and sayeth
There are plenty of uneducated women (Christine) to do those jobs. No need for me to trouble myself like that… (j/k ladies)
Honestly I would prefer to eat at home.. going out to eat is a form of torture, so now I have to pay for torture.. seriously tho… I take Christine out because it affords me very specific perks..
Christine the Lioness pontificated
Whatever. He takes me out because I make him look good… and there’s nothing wrong with working as a waitress and bartender to help pay for tuition during college. There are very few jobs that you can work part-time at night when you have to schedule classes during the day. Not all of us are trust fund babies like Christopher!
Christopher the Pyro thought this
I guess when your trailor trash, everybody seems like a trust fund baby.
Kris the Virgin remarked
Ok, I really enjoyed this conversation. It boggles my mind to think that a post about tipping can turn into a political debate, but if that’s what works for you, keep it up.
I went to college, I worked as a coctail and as a server. We made $2.11 an hour plus tips, and on most nights we left with far less than $200. However, it’s an instant gratification job. If you need money, you go to work and you leave with money. Few jobs are like that, unless you are illegal and working under the radar.
That said, Chris, you go ahead and keep on not tipping. However, I highly suggest you never return to the same restaurant that you don’t tip at. We servers have memories better than elephants, and we will remember you. Non tippers get treated very poorly, and we like the spread the word about you guys.
Christopher the Pyro pontificated
Living in LA affords me the oppertunity to eat at a different place three times a day for the rest of my life. Besides treating a customer bad does nothing but hurt yourself in the long run.. word of month is what matters in business.
Christine the Lioness asserted
Thought you guys might be interested in this. This is what happens because of people who refuse to tip 15%…
http://money.cnn.com/2005/08/16/pf/tips/index.htm
Christine the Lioness commented
See… this is just bullshit. It’s great he wants to pay his staff a decent wage and health benefits and all that, but guess what. Other companies do that without increasing their product or service’s price by 20%. Besides, the tip that people leave goes directly to the waiter… now it basically goes to the owner to do what he should have been doing already, but now he’s making everyone else pay for it and taking control away from the patron. The truth is… it doesn’t benefit anyone but the owner. The patron who had the option of tipping or not as an incentive for good service, is now forced to tip whether the service was good or not. And the waiter (I’m sure) isn’t allowed to have any additional service charge monies that come in from his/her tables over and above what the owner is paying for that server’s health insurance benefits. So the owner basically pockets the extra money. If I ever go to New York, I’m boycotting that restaurant. That will send a message, dammit!
Christopher the Pyro got all philosophical
Christine,
We pay fucking $38 for $3 in food.
They can afford to pay the fucking staff.
Christopher the Pyro got all philosophical
On top of that:
“Guilfoyle said servers and other floor people at the Quilted Giraffe would make upward of $100,000 a year”
These are basically bottom of the barrel people in terms of education, skills, and worth to society and they are making 100k a year in tips… that’s how things should be.. riiiiight….
Pikkel Weezel the Virgin got all philosophical
The thought that tipping is automatic makes me want to vomit acid soaked food chunks. If a server does a good job, I tip the hell out of them ,at least 20% ,if they suck ass, they get nothing. I consider my beer glass the tip meter, if it stays full, I am happy.
Peter the Virgin spake, and sayeth
Wow, I finally made it down here to comment. This goes all the way back to comment #1, and your AND Finally! It may not be your responsiblity but wouldn’t you rather distribute your wealth than the Government. I was just a little confused about who was being the socialist. I’ve seen all the points and like most things it’s hard to see who is right/or wrong.
Tipping to me sounds like something that at one time seemed like a nice idea and more of a choice when someone gave someone something “over the top” as far as service goes, until you get to the point where you are today, from the most fancy place to the smoke filled coffee shop.
For myself I can only say this I will keep tipping until I’m forced to tip at McDonalds, Then I’ll stop, because then I know we’ve gone too far!
Peter the Virgin mentioned
Although answer this though Christine, you can debate all night long about food service, but why should I tip at Starbucks?
Christine the Lioness thought this
Actually, I’ve never tipped at Starbucks. The people who work there aren’t making “server’s minimum wage.”
Christopher the Pyro pontificated
FUCK STARFUCKS..
I actually take the money out of there tip cup.. those fucking dweebs.
Christine the Lioness quibbed this
He may be Republican, but he’s certainly not part of the religious right. LOL!
greywulf the Virgin quibbed this
I’m with Christopher here. I don’t tip. They are there to do their job, period. If they are on low wages, then they should do something about that. Tipping is just perpetuating that low-wage culture by subsidising the cheap-ass restaurant owners’ wages.
Tipping = legitimised begging + blackmail all rolled in to one. If a shop assistant expected me to give them 15% of the cost of the new shoes I’ve bought otherwise they’ll spit in them, that’s extortion. Why should waiters and waitresses expect a tip on a similar basis? Why should be expect to have to give one?
Of course, if someone does something that’s beyond their job role, puts themselves out for us, then they deserve credit, thanks and maybe a tip. If the refuse collectectors take all the trash after Christmas, then they deserve a tip; it’s a thankless task and they’re doing something above and beyond what they’d normally do.
But a waiter giving me hot food on a clean plate? That’s not tipping fodder, that’s their job.
Christopher the Pyro penned this
Right on greywulf
Jay the Groupie uttered
I feel ridiculous saying you are right about this because you are sooooo right it’s painful. Tips are not incentives, they are imperatives.
Christopher the Pyro up'n wrote this
Finally people are starting to see the light.
Servers are taxed on about 8-10 % of there sales. The government assumes you make at least 10%, so they tax you at that rate. In reality, they are setting the level. The people YOU vote into office. So if you don’t tip the min. of 10%, the server is actually losing money.
Also, I assume that those of you who said you don’t tip still feel that bonuses are OK. Apparently if you work in a suit and tie, it’s OK to collect additional earnings for your work, but if you are serving beer or food, you don’t think they are deserving.
I also tend to assume people who don’t tip don’t because they are cheap, that’s it. You can justify it anyway you want to yourself. You don’t want to tip? Too cheap? No problem, stay home.
You tip for the service. Being a part time bartender, I tip well because it assures me good service, and I make enought to afford it. I guess many of you don’t. While I am getting my food and drinks quickly, the non-tippers are waving your one dollar bills in the air wondering why you aren’t being served promptly. Well, there is always Popeyes.
As for “begging”, I am sure you guys don’t mind begging for sex or attention from women. If you can degrade yourself that way, why can’t servers beg for more money.
Christine the Lioness spake, and sayeth
Christopher didn’t believe me when I told him that servers are taxed 10% of their sales so they actually lose money when they get stiffed. And I agree with you completely… I didn’t hear Christopher complaining when he got his Christmas bonus last year, and he certainly didn’t give it back simply because “his employer is already paying him enough.” If you can’t afford to tip, you can’t afford to eat out. And as a bartender several years back, I always poured heavy for the tippers and made sure their drinks got made first. That’s just how it is… the system is what it is. I’m not saying that’s how it should be, but it exists and stiffing your waiter isn’t going to change the system.
Christopher the Pyro penned this
OMG,
I forgot.. I’m taxed 43% of my income.. maybe the customers I market to each and everyday should tip me 43% on sales because I’m so fucking good at deceiving them. You people are on fucking crack. You know your going to lose 10% to taxes, if you don’t like it go get an education give up on being a lame as actor or whatever your excuse it.. it is not my responsiblity to support your dumbass.. infact more then anything this post has convinced me to never tip again… accept at Amiee’s and that is only because I like her.
Christine the Lioness spake, and sayeth
They don’t get taxed 10%… if you listen to what I’m saying, you’ll actually understand this… they get taxed as if they were tipped 10% of their gross sales. It’s like your employer reporting that you made $100,000 last year, so you get taxed as if you made a $100,000, but in reality you only made $84,000. Wouldn’t seem right that you should only get taxed on $84,000??? This is not a difficult concept…
Christopher the Pyro remarked
SOOOO?
Everybody get’s taxes on their bonuses… i don’t really see this as any different from a bonus for good preformance.
Wontar the Virgin mentioned
A tip is a “thank you” to the server who has done a better-than-average job. It is absolutely not mandatory to tip. If the server did a lousy job and did not receive a tip, and over the course of the year did consistently poorly and is taxed higher because of it, one of three things will happen: he/she will become a better server, he/she will get a different job, or he/she will stay in the same job being bitter about the taxes and perpetuate the cycle of being a lousy server and paying more at tax time. I tip accordingly. I’ve tipped more than 20% for excellent service, and I’ve left two cents or less to those who were lousy. A tip is a reward, not an obligation.
Christine the Lioness thought this
Yes, a tip is a reward, not an obligation. But if you don’t tip good service just because you’re cheap and don’t want to spend the extra money because you already feel you’ve spent enough on your dining experience, that’s shitty. And there are plenty of people like that out there… so Wontar, you’re missing the point here. No one is saying you should tip lousy service, but quite frankly I eat out a lot and it is pretty rare that I get service so bad that I feel they don’t deserve a tip. It happens, and I have also left no tip for servers who were really bad. But for the most part, servers take your order, bring your food, check on you, refill your glasses, and bring you a check. Now you can have service like that and use the fact that they didn’t go “above and beyond” to justify not tipping them… but regardless of how you justify it, you’re just trying to find a reason that it’s okay for you to be cheap. Christopher has successfully changed the topic a bit here… and now is trying to convince us it has to do with the level of service instead of the fact that he just doesn’t believe in the tipping system.
Christopher the Pyro spake, and sayeth
That’s not shitty on any level. I have a right to spend my money on whatever I feel.. I don’t have any obiligation to tip it’s a artificial pressure that is put on us by the estabilishments and the people waiting tables, there is no fucking logic to it. This is not about being cheap, if your concience feels guilty for some reason that is your issue, and actully there is nothing wrong with being cheat last time I checked people in this country are on average 8,000 in credit card debt maybe some of them should be cheap like me instead of being sheep or worring about what someonw waitress or waiter will think of them as a person.. I don’t and I seem to do fine on a daily basis.
Christine the Lioness penned this
Absolutely Christopher… the world is a much better place if we all just think about ourselves without giving a care to anyone else. People like you are the reason that restaurants (like the one in New York mentioned above) decide to add mandatory 20% tips to the bill. If everyone had just tipped 10 - 15%, no one would have felt the need to force everyone to tip. But because some people are cheap skates, now we’re all forced to tip in those establishments whether we receive good service or not. So I’m not sure your little theory about it being your choice will hold true for much longer.
Christopher the Pyro quibbed this
Considering gratiuty is already built in for big groups.. i dont’ see that this would be a big change.
Christine the Lioness scribbled
It would mean that on those rare occasions where you do take me out to a nice place (;-)), you would actually have to tip…
CrazyDan the Virgin pontificated
All this arguement over tipping is pretty fun. I worked at a waiter paying my way through college. Waiters are like stripper only with clothes on they depend upon tips. So the fact is its ok not to tip but if you do not tip remmeber to to go back to that place again because we remember and will get our revenge. Myself and many people WILL put extra things in your food I promise we have no promblem with it. Tipping ensures that if you comeback to our restaurant your food will be good but if you can’t tip expect spit, hair, piss, or whatever is handy thats discusting. Maybe you informed us of something our allergic too and you can be sure thats going in there.
MsFreud the Virgin said this
Let those of you who live in or visit Las Vegas- tip your slot staff if you hit a jackpot…. Or we’ll curse your machines.
Christine the Lioness penned this
Now come on… why would we tip a slot staff if we hit a jackpot??? I mean, at least waiters/waitresses actually have to bring you food and take your order and stuff.
Jose the Virgin stated
I believe in tipping because it is a thankless job, with shitty pay. That example of the waiters/waitresses getting 100k is not the common everday situation. If it was, I would throw on a apron and start tomorrow.
Right now my girlfriend waitresses and has her good days and bad days. She is a college student, so her options on where to work are limited. I told her she could just stay at home and do my laundry and clean, for a modest salary consisting of me sexing her up. Besides, it’s bad enough that she wears shoes AND can read. C’mon, what’s the point. But I digress.
I am a person who likes to go out and eat and drink. When you tip well, you get hooked up. Stiff drinks and wuick service. That’s what it’s all about.
BTW, I’m in the military and I walk a liberal line on many things because many things being debated about currently I could give a rats ass about if they don’t affect me directly. With that said, I voted for Bush because I like the thought of showing that America does have a stomach for war and cares about its interests abroad. I think I’m going off topic. Bah. Gotta stop drunk blogging. Oops! Boss is standing next to me…
akaRaff the Virgin remarked
Mind you Christopher, this is coming from a guy who thinks the whole concept of the “Tip Cup” has gotten out of control. Think about this. A waitress is paid 1.50$ an hour because it is a tip based position. This is not a choice of the waitress but instead this is how the IRS signifies it. If they weren’t tip based then the owners would be forced to pay them at least minimum wage which would in turn make your meal more expensive. In the end it is probably cheaper to give a 20% tip then to have the owner pass through the minimum wage salaries they would have to pay otherwise. Waitresses are not Starbucks’ employees who make minimum wage or higher. Tips are part of the deal. Stop being such a tight-wad christopher…pay the waitresses tips and tell the Starbuckss’ folks they will have to go with out the 47 cents.
Don Bell the Virgin chimed in with
I have been “security” at various bars, worked as a “chef” at a resturant, and have friends that are or have been on the wait staff. I have YET to see where the cook/chef doesn’t make more than the wait staff, so the comments by that NY resturant shocked me.
All that said, if the service your received consisted of you getting your order taken cordially, receiving your food warm to hot (hot being better of course) (or cold if it was supposed to be cold and not “room temp”), and the wait staff came by during the meal to check on drinks, etc. You should tip at least 10% (11% in California as I understand it), 15% if you want to stick to the “standard” (and I use that term tounge in cheek). If you get better than “standard” service, tip better. I’ve been known to tip up to 55% for outstanding service. (And when I go to those resturants, the service I get is much better than those around me, as they remember me well, and take very good care of my table. I also get the owners coming by my table many times to make sure all is well…)
On the flip side, if you get crappy service, see that hair they put on your plate, don’t tip, and talk to the Manager. Only way to get things fixed.
Christine the Lioness scribbled
Don Bell… this has nothing to do with service. Christopher just doesn’t feel he should have to tip at all. They are very different things. Which I find somewhat hypocrtical about Christopher. Every time he sees a homeless person, he makes some grumble about how they should get a job… and yet, he doesn’t want to help out the waiters who– yes, have jobs and are working their asses off instead of saying “Fuck it, I’ll just be homeless.” The way I see it, partly because I worked for several years as a waitress and I know how hard it is… when I start seeing waiters and waitresses and busboys driving nicer cars than I do… I’ll think twice about tipping. Until then, it’s 15-20%. Period.
Clete the Virgin mentioned
You guys and your tipping battle. You’re all making this a lot more difficult than it really is. Bringing in politics and such. Its really simple. A waitress/ waiter doesn’t give me good service. What makes me have to pay their rent? If i get incredible service, then of course ill give them a few extra bucks. Christine you talk of how waitresses and waiters “work their asses off.” That isn’t entirely true. All waiters don’t “work their ass off.” These are the ones that shouldn’t be tipped. It’s common sense. You’re lazy? You don’t stop by enough and i have to wait 30 minutes for my ticket bc you’re chattin’ the fuck up with a guy you haven’t seen in a while in the booth behind me? [Its happened!] You aren’t getting a damn thing. Of course i could turn around and ask for the ticket but then there i am being an asshole.
On the other hand,,,you bust your ass. I dont even have to ASK for a refill. It just magically appears. I get a smile and enthusiasm? You’ll get a little extra bank. It comes with the job. The gov’t doesn’t pay you minimum wage bc they expect you too earn your tips. Not bc they expect you to just GET them. I understand these ppl are mostly college students and such. But they know good and damn well what they’re getting into when they apply for a serving job. They know they aren’t going to even get minimum wage. Why not apply for a different job that pays more? Why expect a person with a career to pay for your rent? The one being selfish here isnt the customer. Its the waiter.
Now if the waiter went into the food business as a server bc he liked waiting on ppl and was a joy to have around then that’s who deserves the tips. Not the person who expects a handout. They’re almost as bad as a begger on the corner they just have a nice uniform and and get payed at least 3 bucks an hour.
Cheers*
Clete the Virgin commented
The gov’t pays you minimum wage* Not “doesn’t”. I got ahead of myself.
Christine the Lioness said this
You’ve obviously never been a waiter, Clete. I know this because you would know that no one decides to wait tables because they like waiting on people and they are enthusiastic about having to bring back a dish five times to your table because you don’t know the meaning of the words “medium rare.” Come on… no one dreams of being a waiter. They do it because they need a flexible schedule so they can go to college, or they need to work nights because their wife works days and someone needs to be home to take care of their kids, or, or, or… it’s not the waiter being greedy because they want to make more than $4 an hour. If anyone is being greedy, it’s the restaurant owner who isn’t paying them a living wage. Point is… yes, if a waiter is really bad, they don’t deserve a tip. True. That is different than just deciding that tipping isn’t something you want to do… ever. But a waiter shouldn’t be expected to do cartwheels and bust into a chorus of “Oklahoma” just because your ass walked into the restaurant and got seated in his section either. Be reasonable… I was a decent waitress (it’s not rocket science) and I got stiffed on a tip several times… once because a woman at the table thought I was flirting with her boyfriend/husband/whatever… which I wasn’t… trust me… because that’s back when I was banging the super hot bartender/model/actor that worked the same shift as me. Was it my fault that I had a better ass than she did? No… Did the fact that her boyfriend checked out my ass every time I walked past the table mean I didn’t bring them their food in a timely manner? No… Should she maybe stop being so jealous and catty? Probably… what I’m saying is… you can make a million excuses why someone doesn’t deserve a tip. Christopher even tried to convince me not to tip a waitress one night because he thought she was ugly… (I obviously had to tip her 20% then). Stop being such a cheap ass and tip… and reserve your “not tipping diatribe” for the waiters that really do suck.
Clete the Virgin asserted
It isn’t about being “cheap”. It’s about the waiter doing his damn job that he’s PAID to do. I’m not saying don’t tip at all. I’m saying it should only be if the waiter/waitress deserves it. They’re going to get paid whether i tip or not. They’re going home with a paycheck and a few extra bucks from other people’s tips whether i tip or not. If they want a good tip, they’ll work for it. I’m not expecting them to “do cartwheels and bust out into a chrous of Oklahoma.” I’m expecting them to do they’re freakin job whether they like it or not. I expect them to deal with whatever problems they have before they get to my table and serve me and take it out on me. Bc its happend. Waiters that are pissed off and treat me like im the one “asking” for too much. Like if my orders wrong, he wants to get an attitude. I understand they’re human and we all have our down days. But if he expects a tip he’ll work for it. I’m not one for handouts. That’s his job.
And yes I know people don’t go into that because they WANT to serve people. But they if they want to sit here and complain about me not leaving 3 dollars on the table because they’re a shitty waiter then screw em. I dont need that. Get another job if you want more money. Or be a bum. They ask for handouts all the time.
J-Ro the Virgin added
I will begin by stating two things: First, unless the waiter was incredibly bad, I tip generously; usually at least 20%, which in my opinion is ridiculous. I do it out of a vague sense of guilt, plus I don’t want people to spit in my food, which is something about which I am a tad outraged; people should NOT have to be worried about eating spit. (But I’ll get to my thoughts on the “blackmail” aspect of tipping in a minute.) Second, I have been a member of a waitstaff before and received tips plus $2.38 per hour. You won’t get rich waiting tables, but on the other hand, I remember it being the most money I had ever made without so much as a high school degree (at the time.)
However, I am inclined to agree with Greywulf and Christopher. TIPPING BLACKMAIL IS UNACCEPTABLE. Paying people just so they will not spit in your food is wrong. It’s extortion. Tipping is supposed to promote good service, not to buy mafia-style protection against ingesting other peoples’ saliva!
Christine, regarding the New York restaurant automatically adding a 20% gratuity: At first, I agreed with your statement: “The patron who had the option of tipping or not as an incentive for good service, is now forced to tip whether the service was good or not.” BUT, then I thought about it some more, and realized that most people still tip anyway (the article cites the national average as 18%) because they’re either satisfied with their service, or they’re afraid of having their food spit on.
Now picture a world where tipping were universally mandatory. The restaurants would be forced to pay their employees a liveable, steady wage as a direct function of a percentage of sales. Waiters would still be expected to do their jobs, but if you have a problem with service, instead of not paying the bum, you have to take it up with his manager.
This helps CONSUMERS in the restaurant industry in two ways: 1) It lets the management know if they have a bad waiter. (Stiffing the guy and walking out without saying anything doesn’t let management know there is a problem!) 2) It gets consumers out from under the vindictive thumb of waiters who would spit in their food. Think about it!
It also helps WAITERS, because tying the gratuity to a percentage of the food tab STILL ensures that waiters will make more on busier nights (when they’re presumably doing more work.)
It also helps the RESTAURANT, because if consumers no longer have the option to silently leave a bad tip and walk away, restaurant management will be brought back into the loop on policing the quality of their waitstaff. In the long run that will lead to better quality of service, which breeds customer loyalty.
And to satisfy Christopher’s point, they would then be “doing their jobs for the wage they’re being paid”, not looking for an “extra handout” for merely doing their job. And I would fully expect a manager to be on hand all the time, to discreetly take feedback on waitstaff performance. In my opinion, that would be much more effective than not tipping and hoping the bad waiters will eventually, silently, take the hint and quit.
J-Ro the Virgin mentioned
Regarding a mandatory gratuity; Case in point:
Four of us (two couples) were out at a local Thai restaurant a year ago and we got The Worst Service any of us had ever received. But the restaurant’s policy stated they add an 18% gratuity for parties of 4 people or more.
If we could have left a shoddy tip and walked away, we probably would have done so. But the fact that it was built into the tab FORCED us to go get the manager and explain what was wrong and why we thought it was presumptuous and inappropriate to affix a gratuity charge to our bill.
He agreed, and waived the gratuity, allowing us to tip appropriately. (Some managers would have gone further to “make it up to us”, but removing the gratuity was minimally adequate to satisfy us.) The upside is, the problem was made right, plus, now the manager knows there has been a complaint about that waiter. If he gets other complaints, he can actually ADDRESS the problem (either more training for the waiter, or walking papers.)
Thus, mandatory gratuity is a win-win scenario! It doesn’t mean you necessarily pay the gratuity every time. It just means that if you have a problem, you’re forced to talk to the management, which in the long run helps the whole industry get better.
Christine the Lioness pontificated
J-Ro… I would venture to say that while you think it’s great that mandatory tipping ensures that people will have to go to the management if they get bad service, I think there are a lot of people out there (myself not included but I know many) that don’t like confrontation in general and don’t want to go to a manager to complain because it kind of ruins their evening. On the other hand, there are certainly people out there who make shit up and complain about the wait staff simply so they won’t have to tip. I dealt with several of those when I was a waitress and I KNOW they got good service… they were the same cheap ass people who drink their cocktails down to the ice and then when you take their drinks, they complain that you took it while it was half full and want a new one for free. Those people love to complain because they want everything for as cheap as they can get it. So I think there will be lots of people out there who will just pay the mandatory tip, walk out without complaining to a manager, and just decide never to come back. But that doesn’t really tell the manager who the shitty waiters are now, does it? So basically… the manager forces the patron to pay his employee because he wants to make as much money as he can… the waiter makes money whether they’re good or not… and the consumer gets shafted unless the waiter was great and he/she would have tipped that much anyway.
Jennifer the Virgin got all philosophical
Christine, you are so right! I have been a waitress for a couple of years and I have people come in and complain about something so stupid and get a bill comp. They also complain that if the food takes to long, it is the servers fault. The real problem with the whole tradition of tipping is these corporations that started taking advantage of it. They believe putting a dozen and a half servers on the floor (or more) at say $2.13/hr will get them better customer service, but in fact is going to just piss all the employees off. If servers were paid minimum wage, there would be a major stress relieve and a compromise between who wants to tip and who does not want to tip.
Christine the Lioness got all philosophical
Wow… Jennifer… spoken like someone who actually knows what they’re talking about…
Christopher the Pyro uttered
or like another whiny waitress
Christine the Lioness pontificated
Don’t you just love him???
J-Ro the Virgin chimed in with
Christine,
I would like the chance to rebut. First, I don’t think we should be catering to people who *want* to pay according to the quality of service, but who won’t take the *responsibility* to address specific problems when they occur because “conflict makes them feel icky”. Stiffing a waiter and walking out (without explaining) is passive-aggressive behavior and I can’t say I agree with that as a prospective solution to bad service. People with a weak nerve are going to have to suck it up and get over it. Period.
Second, waiters need to CYA a little better. I don’t think a waiter should ever, *ever* take a glass (or a plate) from someone, no matter how apparently empty it might be, without asking “Are you all done with that, sir?” There’s no excuse there. If a waiter can’t be bothered to do that, he should *expect* a few disgruntled folks who can’t remember how much was in the glass. It’s not as though this is a difficult, time-consuming, or unreasonable task to check with the person you’re expecting tip money from.
Third, regarding “any problems with the meal always being seen as the waiter’s fault whether or not it was really the kitchen’s fault”, under the mandatory tipping system that would not be a problem. When you talk to the restaurant manager, the waiter is completely removed from any potential conflict. It becomes the manager’s job to sort out whether a complaint is bogus or if you actually got bad food/service/etc. And if you get something comped and it’s not the waiter’s fault, the money comes off the bill, *not* out of the tip! The only way it could come out of the tip is if tipping were optional (ie, controlled by the consumer!)
News flash to the service industry: The population you are serving will contain jerks. You have to deal with it and still give everyone great service, including the jerks. If you can’t deal with that, get out of the industry, right now. That doesn’t make the jerks any better, but they are part of your job as a service employee. Overall, you still come out *ahead* if you just do your job and keep a good service attitude. I mean, you make on average 18% in tips and are only taxed by the IRS as though you make 10%. So you get almost half your tip money tax free!
I personally work in the service industry and I don’t even *get* tips. There is no monetary incentive for me to work hard or please my customer, I get paid no matter what degree of “satisfied” my customers are. “Then why do you strive to do a good job?” you might ask. Answer: professional pride, and managerial feedback! My motivation comes from a desire to keep my *job*. If I give bad service, someone can’t just stiff me and walk away. If I give bad service, a customer could complain and it would reach my manager. Then I would have to try to prove whether I provided good (or even adequate) service to the customer. Believe me, I know that sometimes customers complain for very little reason, and in those cases, my manager has taken my side. But on the other hand, sometimes I legitimately screwed up. When I screw up I want to know it, because I care about the quality of my work and how I am perceived. However, there’s no way my boss would know about it if our customers simply controlled my income with no venue for specific items of feedback. I would end up getting the shaft, most likely, since as you stated, there are some customers who just don’t want to pay for anything and would make stuff up hoping for a freebie. Why should that be *my* (i.e. the waiter’s) problem? Let *management* worry about dealing with those parasites, and telling them ‘yes’ or ‘no’. Meanwhile, *I* am on the front lines dealing with more customers, and unless management fires me, I should get paid no matter what. And so should waiters.
On the flip side, if enough people complained and/or if I were a truly difficult service individual, my manager would see that, and could try to get me better training, or in the worst-case scenario, he could establish a documentable pattern of complaints to enable him to fire me if he desired. THAT is how you keep service standards high; by recognizing overall trends in the feedback you get on your employees. Not by establishing a pattern of instant-gratification and mood swings for waiters on a check-by-check basis dependent on that night’s random sampling of customer tipping!
I never sit here and think, “Why should I help Mr. Smith? What’s in it for me? He never calls my manager with any praise. I won’t make any more money by helping him quickly and thoroughly.” Nor do I think, “I remember last time I tried to help Smith, he complained. I’m not making his case a priority, he gets the bare minimum.” I just do my best to help *every* customer, *every* time, because that’s my JOB. I do it for a *fixed* price, day in, day out. I don’t understand why this model could not be effectively applied to the food service industry.
Christine the Lioness quibbed this
Okay… I stopped reading after your first paragraph, J-Ro, because quite frankly, if you can’t be any more concise than that… I think you might need a writing class. Think “thesis sentence.” And even after the first paragraph, I can see how misguided you are, so I’ll go ahead and respond…
So let me get this straight… everyone who patronizes restaurants and gets bad service should be forced into a situation where they are uncomfortable complaining to a manager when all they really wanted was to go out, have a nice, relaxing dinner, and decent service simply because you’ve labeled it passive-aggressive behavior and it might fuck your chances for a tip? Hrmmm… I disagree. Last time I checked, people had the choice of deciding whether or not they want to come back to a certain restaurant based on the experience they had the first time. And I don’t think that freedom really fits any psychological disorder… it’s simply their choice. I’m a big believer in choosing my battles, and if I don’t feel like hashing out with a manager what a shitty job he did in hiring the imbecile who can’t decode the rocket science of bringing me a plate of food, I won’t. Period.
If you are so worried about patrons demonstrating “passive-aggressive” behavior by not leaving a tip or not returning to a restaurant, how about you just give ‘em good service and you won’t have to worry about it? Just an idea…
Megan the Virgin added
I found this site by accident and I was drawn in my Christine’s initial comments. I am a waitress in NY and it drives me absolutely crazy that so many people stereo type waitress (at least where I live) as being either too lazy or too dumb to get a “real job” People seem to think that they are for some reason above us and that gives them the right to be rude and condescending and tip like shit. Well, I can assure you that most waiters and waitresses that I know are neither lazy nor dumb. Chris, when you go into a restaurant you know that a tip is expected, especially for good service… you said that if we don’t like working on tips that we should get another job–well, if you don’t like tipping, why don’t you sit home and cook your self a meal, server it to your self and clean up after your self?
Personally, I work as a waitress because I have a 1 1/2 yr old son and my husband’s salary does not always cut it when it comes to miscellaneous daily expenses. Before I had a child I worked for a large financial corporation and had a good salary and I could not return to work because I do not want my child raised by nannies and day care centers. Waitressing allows for a very flexible schedule and I can work overnights while my child is asleep at home with his father. My point is, everyone has a story, regardless of your profession, and you should under no circumstance assume that you know someones story because they serve you food!
Also, Chris, Tipping is not much different from purchacing things at Circuit City or other places where their staff works on comission… the difference is that their tip is a hidden charge. Would you ever walk in to buy a stereo or a tv and tell the person helping you that after all the help that they had been to you, you would like to know how much comision they are making and then to please have the manager deduct that from the price of your purchase? No, I don’t think so… At least when you go to a restaurant, you arent incurring any hidden charges!
Megan the Virgin up'n wrote this
Chris, I just thought that I would elnighten you as to how my pay works and why tipping is important… My salary is $1.25 per hr and 1 hr per shift is deducted from our pay because it is considered our “break.” That break is actually the time that I sit at the counter because the diner is so slow that we don’t have anything else to do. The restaurant claims that we recieve 18% gratuity on each check, so we are taxed on that (even though suggested gratuity is only 15%).
On an average night I make about $60- for an 8 or 9 hr shift. 15% of that is tipped out to the bus boys leaving me with about $54- to take home. Of course, some nights are better than others and some nights are worse. You see, Chris, even the IRS thinks that you should tip!
Christine 2 the Mercenary hunt n' pecked this
http://mydecay.blogspot.com/2005/12/fucking-tourists.html
I work as a waitress…and I’m not getting into the mudslinging. Everyone has interesting ideas, and honestly I’m too fucking tired from busting my ass tonight. But all those people that did tip me, tonight and ever, gave me another semester at college. Was it their responsibility? No. Am I hunting down non-tippers to kill their families? No. But, just as one says please and thank you out of courtesy, one should tip. Is it your RESPONSIBILITY to say thank you when someone helps you out? No. But if you don’t…are you and asshole? Yes. And you should burn in hell. But that’s cool, because after I get my big fancy job, I’ll tip even more. Why? Because I hate the government, but I love the people. What’s wrong with a little encouragement and showing someone that you appreciate their extra effort? Chris, have you ever been somewhere to buy something, gotten completely pissed at the horrible way they treated you, and cursed them to damnation? Well those fuckers at Best Buy selling you the service plans get paid more for fucking you over. And they don’t care whether or not your visit was pleasant. But when someone comes in to eat, and I give them company, attention, courtesy, and consideration , it always makes me feel better that I EARNED that tip. I don’t expect people to tip me if I do a shitty job. Which is why I do a great job. When I do a great job and then you don’t tip me, I don’t want to go get a different job. I say, “Man, that dude is a douchebag.” And that’s it. But interestingly enough, the people that get paid the most are most often the people that DON’T give a shit about your visit, but rather want to fuck you into poverty to benefit their own wallet. Making it some kind of social movement is just a cop-out for being cheap. Yeah, I’m sure if you don’t shop at Wal-mart, the trend will catch on, and then all those little starving kids in the sweatshops and will go out and get better jobs. Maybe they will finially get a fucking education and become lawyers. But it’s not always that black and white. And I agree with Christine, that everyone should just put their dicks back in their pants, and accept things for how they are. Fucking Realistic. You not tipping is not making people go get better jobs, it’s making available jobs harder on people.
Christine the Lioness hunt n' pecked this
Oh, Megan, Megan, Megan… while I whole-heartedly agree with your well articulated argument for tipping and applaud you for making the decision to be a waitress instead of having a cushy desk job so that you can put your child first and make sure he has a mom around instead of having a baby and letting someone else raise it… you don’t understand Christopher well. You are new to our site, so it is understandable and you probably haven’t had time to be truly appalled by the things he says in his posts and comments. But let me assure you, darlin’, Christopher couldn’t care less about whether or not the IRS thinks he should tip since he does everything in his power to avoid paying taxes… AND… now that you’ve suggested it, he probably would go into Circuit City and ask the manager to deduct the commission (thanks. now I can never go to Circuit City with him again ).
Christopher the Pyro spake, and sayeth
I don’t know.. until about 10 seconds ago I was convinced when someone does a good job that I would tip them 10%.. then I saw the bitterwaitress site and the database of bad tippers and decided to add myself and now I’m am offically off the hook becuase I am a bad tipper.. and I need to live up to that title.. so I really don’t ever plan on tipping again… oh.. and that database is REALLY scary since a waitress would never know who I am until AFTER I pay… and you don’t want me to stereotype waitress’s as stupid.
Christine 2 the Mercenary pontificated
Well Chris, I seriously doubt that anyone reads the STD database and remembers names for future reference. That would almost be counterproductive. I think it’s just a funny way to trash talk people, so that one day you don’t show up with a gun, or maybe blow up a government building. But most waitresses, due to their lack of education (hence the shitty job) probably don’t have the drive or intelligence to plan that far ahead. haha.
J-Ro the Virgin commented
Christine, I’ll do my best to keep this short for easy mental digestion on your behalf. You attacked one point I made and dismissed the rest of my post; Essentially, you disagreed that stiffing your waitress is passive-aggressive behavior. Honestly, I don’t care whether you agree with that label. I used it because it is exerting power over someone while avoiding direct conflict and without addressing the root of the problem. The term “passive aggressive” bothers you? Fine. Let’s just call it “conflict avoidance.” But at least admit that if you’re defending the “conflict avoidance scenario” of walking out without leaving a tip, then you’re in effect saying it IS ok to stiff your waitress, if you don’t feel she deserves a tip, without discussing it or telling her why. This surprises me, since I thought you had created this thread to argue *against* that point.
Your last sentence in reply to me was also unnecessary; Obviously, the optimal situation is that I go to a restaurant, get great service, and leave a good tip. No one was arguing that. Sheesh.
Christine the Lioness uttered
J-Ro… if you re-read my post, I think you’ll see that I was saying simply that waiters deserve a tip of 15% unless they give you shit service, in which they don’t deserve a tip at all. I was criticizing Christopher for thinking that no server deserves a tip regardless of the service they provide because he doesn’t like tipping and feels that if they don’t like making $3.00 an hour (as their wage), then they should get different jobs. Why the hell should anyone tip a server who did a crap ass job? TIPS means “to insure proper service.” If a waiter doesn’t give proper service, he doesn’t deserve a tip. Period. My standard of what proper service is, is pretty leniant. They don’t have to bend over backwards, but they do have to be semi-nice and get me ketchup when I ask for it. To expect that a patron should HAVE TO complain to the management or the server him/herself to explain why he/she isn’t leaving a tip is the patron’s choice. The concept of tipping is that if you get shit service, you don’t leave one. The fact that you don’t know why you’re not getting a tip, isn’t my problem. Forcing people to have to complain when most people don’t consider having to have a talk with a manager or waiter about their shitty service isn’t what most people would consider a pleasant or fun experience, and they certainly aren’t required to do it simply because you feel entitled to know why you weren’t tipped. As a server, you are pretty much there to give the patrons a good dining experience. They aren’t there to make sure you make money. Now, think about what you’re asking. If they haven’t had a good dining experience, you’re essentially saying that this is so much about you, that you expect that their behavior of just getting up, stiffing you, and leaving is not acceptable. It’s their choice.
But I am making the distinction here between people who stiff because they got poor service and those who stiff because they’re cheap asses. But in no way do I feel it necessary or “passive-aggressive” to feel like I don’t have to tell a waiter why he sucks. It’s not my problem. So don’t make it mine. If I don’t like the food at a restaurant, I don’t go back into the kitchen and tell the chef how he should prepare it differently. If I don’t like the way a place washes my car, I don’t go back and explain how to wash it better… I just try a different place next time. Come, on… J-Ro. You are really expecting people to do what you want, instead of what they feel comfortable with and then labeling them because they aren’t doing what you want.
Christopher the Pyro chimed in with
Next thing you know we are going to have to fill out a tip card, could you please explain your tip amount in 1500 words or less. Thank You!
Christine the Lioness asserted
LOL! Of course, if Christopher took on the task of writing it… they’d spend more time trying to figure out what all the misspellings were… or… he would probably just say “I can do it in less than 1499 words… NO!”
Mara the Peacemaker hunt n' pecked this
I’ve been following this discussion and I have to say that I’m with Chris. One of my roommates is actually a waitress who has argued to me that she is entitled to a tip EVEN when she provides bad service. That’s ridiculous for a number of reasons, the first being that I live in California which does not have a server’s minimum wage. So the argument that the servers don’t even make minimum wage and literally live off of their tips is even less compelling since they actually do make minimum wage in California.
Notwithstanding that, the fact of the matter is, I shouldn’t be required or expected to care what the person serving me makes. As cold and harsh as it sounds, people choose the work that they will and it isn’t my fault if your employer doesn’t pay you enough. Do I think it’s shitty that some food servers make less than minimum wage? Definitely, but I also don’t think customers/clients should bear the burden of that cost. Afterall, when push comes to shove, I care more about being able to
