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Ben2 the Soldier (56) Christopher the Pyro hunt n' pecked this
I would have to disagree with Christine on some points here.. (big surprise) first I’m not sure in what capacity Michele actually passed on her opinions if it was during an op-ed piece then that is perfectly acceptable.. and the fact is if playgirl does consider itself a liberal magazine.. which I’m not sure it does or why it would, then firing it’s editor in chief for saying they voted read doesn’t seem very liberal, accepting or progressive of them.. and if she said this outside of work and it got written up.. then that isn’t a very valid reason to fire someone either. I mean we wouldn’t fire someone because they attend church every weekend and we also wouldn’t fire someone for saying they attend church and if we did that would be considered discrimination.
I would argue this point, Christine makes it sound ok to discriminate as long as it is in the best interest of the company’s ability to make money.. hmm ok you say.. that makes sense.. umm not really.. look at it like this. Most white people are more comfortable when they are around other white people so is it ok for a shop or dinner in a white neighborhood to not hire a black because he/she might make their patrons uncomfortable? It would most certainly cost the owner money hiring a black, Mexican, or Asian but does that make it acceptable to discriminate?
She is also not right about staying middle of the road, in magazines and everything else in life, controversy is good, it’s never bad that is why I feel like something about this story doesn’t make sense.. she probably actually boosted subscriptions not hurt them. I also got the impression that Christine would like us to give up our freedom of speech or free press the fact is, Michele can certainly state whatever her political party is without having to fear repercussions. I think Michele was fired for something inappropriate that probably has nothing to do with being a republican or anything like that, either way i doubt she will be unemployed long.. she is a banging hottie, if nothing else she might make to the pages of Playboy soon.
Christine the Lioness spake, and sayeth
Okay… not sure what planet Christopher is on today (or any day for that matter) but here goes…
1. What the hell is Christopher talking about when he tries to liken this to not hiring blacks or Asians or Mexicans in a restaurant? To deny someone employment because of their race is discrimination. A black or Asian or Mexican or white person can all do the same job. If he’s trying to impoly that it will piss off racists who might want to eat there, then I say Good! Piss the fuckers off! As a white person (just for the record) I’ve never felt uncomfortable being waited on in a restaurant by someone of a different color or ethnicity, so Christopher’s point here makes no sense. And, Christopher, if you feel a little nervous when a black guy brings your steak and eggs to your table on a tray, then… maybe therapy would help.
2. Christopher missed the point… it has nothing to do with Michelle’s political beliefs (regardless of how hot she is)… it has to dow with the fact that when you are hired for a job… you represent that company. Of course you have freedom of speech and on your own time, you can do and say anything you damn well please (this is still a free country last time I checked– well, maybe not for the Dixie chicks or anyone else who wants to speak out against Bush, but for the most part, a free country). However, as the REPRESENTATIVE of a company that does not want to take political sides or promote one party’s agenda over another, you do not have the right to use your authority and power in that position to promote something the company doesn’t want you to promote. Just like if I went to work every dayday at a law firm and decided to dress like I worked at Hooters, the company would have every right to fire me. I can bitch and moan that I should have the freedom to wear what I want, but it’s their comkopany and if I’m not going to give the image that represents their company the way they want it to be represented, then they have every right to fire me… especially if clients are moving their business because of me. Similarly, if I drove a Fed-Ex truck, I wouldn’t have the right to plaster it with anti-Bush bumper stickers because it then links my PERSONAL opinion with the image of Fed-Ex.
3. I don’t want anyone to give up their freedom of speech… Michelle Zipp can start her own little magazine and write whatever the hell she wants… but to expect that Playgirl would just let her use their magazine for her own personal forum shows she has no idea how business is run.
4. The freedom of the press should also be protected… but I get annoyed when I read biased bullshit passed off as news like in the Drudge report.
5. No, Chris, you can’t fire someone for going to church on Sunday. When they’re not acting as an employee of your company, they can do anything they want. Now, can I fire someone for putting Watchtower pamphlets in every widget we package and sell? Fuck, yeah! It’s completely different. Would I fire a sales person in my company for telling customers who walk into my store that he’s a Jehovah’s Witness? Yep… it’s not his job to reveal personal information about himself. That’s not what I hired him to do… and if he makes my customers feel uncomfortable and not want to shop in my store simply because he feels the need to express that personal information, he can go do it somewhere else. Just like stores that keep panhandlers away from their front doors… if a panhandler makes people feel uncomfortable and not want to come inside, the store owner has a right to have that panhandler removed.
Christopher will be the first to tell you he hates the victim mentality that he thinks most Democrats have… well, Michele Zipp, as Republican as you think you are, honey, are the biggest freaking whiner I’ve ever heard. I guess for Christopher, the “victim mentality” thing only applies to people who didn’t vote for Bush. And the people who did are allowed to annoy the rest of us with their “poor me” crap until doomsday. Or… maybe it’s just because she’s hot… but if that’s the case… then I should get away with being a whiny little brat too. 
Christopher the Pyro quibbed this
I really see no difference between race and political party.. I mean some of us are born insane (liberal) and some of us are born sane (conservative) and that really isn’t a choice either.
Also, please remember that of course Christine isn’t uncomfortable with peoples of other races serving her she grew up on a plantation! so she is quite use to it. Christine hasn’t realized that everybody in the world isn’t quite like her yet.. and my point wasn’t that people get nervous or scared but a matter of preference, would a restraunt do better in an all white neighbor hood with white kids of the neighborhood or black kids from out of the neightborhood? In my opinion of course the restaurant in the white neighborhood that hires whites would do better then one that hires blacks.. does that make it right.. depends.. from a capatalistic oint of view.. yes.. from a moral point of view.. not really…
I also didn’t miss the point, it has alot of do with how hot Michele is, we can’t talk about a girl without rating her hotness… and since we don’t actually know where she made her political views known.. i’m really trying hard to figure out what the hell Christine is arguing here.. I mean if Michael Jordan said he was a republican is the NBA going to ban him because 35% of the country might stop watching? hrmm… but he was a representive of the NBA.. ??
Christine is right about one thing, I do think Michile is being a whinny lil pain in the ass. She should stop bitching and go get a job, she obviously has the qualifications and the looks to score a good one and don’t let Christine kid you she does get away with being a lil pain in the butt!
Christine the Lioness hunt n' pecked this
Christopheeeeeeer…. I am nooooooooooot a whineeeeee pain in the buuuuuuuuuuuutt!
Mike B the Virgin spake, and sayeth
Christine your argument is very sound. The EOE ACT does not offer protection for liberals or neocon whackos. I’m sure there is more to the story than what she is saying but it is very logical for any company to fire an employee who has made a statement that causes controversy and threatens the profits of the company, that’s not discrimination that’s business.
Christopher the Pyro remarked
Except in business, marketing, and especially magazines like Playgirl controversy = $$$$… ok honestly I have no idea what a playgirl magazine consists of and Christine has informed me that it is NOT like playboy sooooo maybe controvery isn’t good for playgirl..
Mike B the Virgin spake, and sayeth
Chris,
Normally I would agree with that, but if, and that’s a big if, the majority of woman who read(yeah right) Playgirl are liberal then controversy doesn’t = $$$$ it = -$ .
And can you honestly say that you don’t believe that the majority of Playgirl’s readers aren’t liberal?
Liberal women are more independent and most men can’t handle them and liberal women recognize that they have the right to be freaky. I don’t think many bible toting conservatives have a copy of Playgirl tucked away in the back of their bibles and can you imagine the beat down they would get from their neocon hubby if he found it?
Christopher the Pyro hunt n' pecked this
Mike B,
I think there is a small gap in your logic, the fact that the editor was conservative shouldn’t have effected the liberal readership “liberal women are more independent”, many of my liberal friends would describe themselves as accepting of other people and more open minded but obviously this isn’t true because you believe that playgirl would lose readers based on it’s editor being a conservative. If anything this would allow them to expand their readership base some, because if liberals are even half as accepting as they would like to pretend then having someone who voted republican as an editor of a magazine shouldn’t bother them but maybe it would be an inviting presence for the conservative ladies that you don’t think read the magazine.
The fact of the matter is conservative / liberal have many meanings. I seriously doubt Michele voted Red because she was a religious fanatic because most people who voted Red are not, they just want less taxes, strong defense, ect. Many conservatives believe in less taxes or smaller government or state rights and it has nothing to do with how they are in the bedroom or if they read playgirl. I’ve known plenty of conservative women who are quite independent and also nympho’s in the bedroom and I’ve also known plenty of liberal girls who are completely submissive, needy, and absolutely appalled by the idea of looking at naked men in a magazine. So I doubt that your profiling is holding water on this issue. If you want to say that the far religious right that 5 to 10% of the country wouldn’t read playgirl anyway.. then your right.. but I’m guessing playgirl wants to appeal to the masses and most American’s don’t really give a fuck who the editor is but they might be offended by a woman losing her job because she likes bush err President Bush.
Christine the Lioness commented
I think Christopher is missing Mike’s original point… that this was a business decision that Playgirl had every right to make (I’m sure Playgirl has a better sense of what kind of content will make them money than Christopher does– who has never even opened the magazine).
But I do agree with Mike B in that most men have a hard time handling us independent, liberal women…
Christopher the Pyro pontificated
I think that you both are making an assumption that is not based on any actual information. (That this was a business decision and not someohe who was just out to grind and axe). Either way I’m pretty sure that she didn’t become Editor in Chief by putting bad content on the pages of Playgirl lol. (Not that is difficult to fill a magazine with naked guys)
As for not being able to handle liberal women… I would agree for some reason all the crazy’s got grouped into the liberal catagory.. so you have to understand.. it’s hard dealing with people who make absolutly no sense ever but don’t let Christine kid you she is actually a closet conservative (I’m going to prove this to you all over the comming months).
Mike B the Virgin added
Chris,
Any decision made that effects their comapny is a business decision. You’re right I don’t know the exact motives but it does seems logical that if readers are unhappy about the actions of the editor that a business decision be made. Keep her on and call the readers bluff or fire her and ensure happiness from our subscribers. Both are business decisions Playgirl just chose the latter of the two.
As for liberals being accepting, most are, I’m not. I find any person with any kind of common sense that voted for Bush (wait that’s an oxymoron)… Let me rephrase any person who voted for Bush and knows how to read intolerable. Don’t get me wrong I have nothing against conservatives, but Bush is no conservative. The Federal Government is increasing it’s power and decreasing that of the states, Bush’s spending is not what I would call conservative, and his constant push of his faith upon the American people is not conservative.
It’s not conservatives that I have a problem with it’s Bush supporters and I think most liberals find Bush supporters intolerable.
Christine,
Thankfully you saw the jist of what I was trying to say.
Christine the Lioness commented
Christopher wishes that I was a “closet conservative” (as well as as a “closet bisexual” if we’re being totally honest).
And he’s wrong about another thing… it is hard to feel a magazine with naked guys… oh, did I say “feel?” Sorry… meant “fill…” ;-D
Christopher the Pyro uttered
lol,
Well arn’t we all intolerant of what we don’t like. That same old shit Christine does, “I’m much more tolerant then you Chris, except I can’t stand “______”" incert whatever she is bent about. I would agree with you about Bush not being a true conservative but it’s better then having a Socialist err Liberal in power. As for Playgirl, alas without more fact, I can’t argue without making shit up so I’ll agree, Capitalism rules the day, a business must do what will bring in the most $$$ otherwise it won’t be around very long.
Sam the Virgin penned this
Freedom of Speech is a right! If this Editor had stated she was a Muslim and that offended PG’s readers and seh was fired she would have a law suit agains PG and everyone would be declaring that her rights where violated. She’s an editor, editor’s write editorials from personal oppinion. Are we so non tolerant that we can’t handle other people having different views than us?
Christopher the Pyro scribbled
Sam,
The more I have thought about this the more I don’t think she was fired for her personal beliefs that would be the ultimate hipprocracy.. a porn magazine firing someone because their views differ from the magazines. That said, I do very much believe a business has a right to fire and hire someone for pretty any reason they want, free markets and capatalism works. There is a fine line here between violating someones free speach right.. (but actually it wasn’t violated at all she could and did say whatever she wanted, but there are concequences to actions), and if she was fired for her political comments then that is basically how life is.. sometimes bad things happen because of the actions we take.
Christine the Lioness commented
Sam…
Since the editor could obviously do her job without publicizing that she’s Republican or Muslim or she prefers Coke over Pepsi… or whatever… it wasn’t necessary to tell the world. All it did was create controversy that the magazine felt hurt sales. If I worked for a company and then told everyone (as a representative of that company) that their product sucked, I would not be surprised if the company fired me. Does that mean my freedom of speech has been violated? Of course not. I am welcome to say anything I want, but I’d be ridiculously stupid to think there should be no consequences to making those choices. And… in addition… she was editor-in-chief, not a journalist who was hired to write commentary.
Christopher the Pyro uttered
Alas,
There are no reports that she actually resigned.
» 2005 The Chris vs. Chris Year in Review by Battle of the Sexes the Groupie hunt n' pecked this
[…] Playgirl Magazine editor Michelle Zipp is given the ax for using her editor’s commentary to publicize her personal opinions on why she voted Republican. Some think Playgirl was justified in firing her while others feel her freedom of speech was violated. […]
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Michele Zipp, the former editor-in-chief for ‘Playgirl’ magazine made a big mistake– one that, for good reason, cost her her job.
the more subscribers I have, the more money I make. Plain and simple.