Christine the Lioness (3122)
Christopher the Pyro (1985)
ProphetJoe the Irreverent (1228)
Trouble the Pirate (600)
Keith the Director (573)
Mara the Peacemaker (530)
eric the Lil' Devil (351)
AJ the Zen Master (305)
Ben the Kingpin (213)
Haas the Addict (187)
Christine 2 the Mercenary (131) Lei the Mercenary (124) Katie the Mercenary (115)
Ben2 the Soldier (56) Christopher the Pyro thought this
A few reasons why it is ok for me to lie about anything.
1. I completley lack a concience so thereful I do not have the ablity to feel guilt. I find this to a positive.
2. I do what is in MY best interest, so if telling Christine her cat died in it’s sleep makes her less emotional that is in my best interest. If lying about something that would hurt a relationship keeps a relationship strong that is also in my own best interest.
In regards to cheating…
Cheating - only exists if you get caught.. if I cheat on a test and nobody knows.. it does’t matter, history records it as legit test, plain and simple, we cheat, lie, and steal all the time and those words only apply when we get caught, because the act of getting caught is what changes the meaning.
Christine the Lioness quibbed this
Christopher obviously has no concept of intrinsic morals. For most of us, who see the bigger picture and care about what’s fair to everyone else, it doesn’t matter if we get caught or not… we do what we do based on what is right with our moral beliefs. Doing what is in the best interest of everyone, not just yourself, can have very positive outcomes for all involved. I personally, could not look at my boyfriend every day and know that I cheated on him or lied to him. I think that is a good quality that most people respect. I think excusing a wrong or hurtful action because you’ve found a way to justify it, doesn’t put you in a very good light. It’s not a quality that people find to be very noble. Besides, if you’re in a committed relationship and feel the need to lie or cheat, then my opinion is that you aren’t really mature enough to be in that relationship, and you don’t have the balls to just be honest and cop to what you did.
Christopher the Pyro spake, and sayeth
That might be true in a dream world.. just not reality where we all live.
Christine the Lioness commented
Reality is what we make it. It’s not that hard to just be honest if you really want to be. And yes, people do still admire honesty in the real world. At least the people I hang out with do.
Trouble the Pirate thought this
Speaking Hyper-thetically… If you cheat in a relationship, and then tell your insignificant other… You do that because of your own inability to deal with the guilt, not born of any noble feeling that they will be ‘better off’ knowing about it. If you cheat, there are more important ‘issues’ than deception which you need to ‘work-out.’
If you cheat, whether it be for sexual fulfillment, ‘love’, or my usual, ‘because I was really drunk…’ try to be responsible and use a condom… It’s the very least you can do for your partner… Especially with the freaky-deaky, parking-lot but-sex with two trannys and a midget (… I mean little person.)
Christine the Lioness hunt n' pecked this
Maybe that’s why you would tell, Trouble… to rid yourself of the guilty feelings. But you’re generalizing by suggesting that’s why anyone would do it. I think honesty is the most important thing in a relationship… and I want to only be in a relationship with someone who I can trust is always being honest with me even if he needs to tell me something I won’t be happy about. Knowing that’s important to me, I would hope my partner would respect my wishes and be honest about things even if it means he may have to deal with me being upset or whatever. That’s truly respect, because he is respecting what he knows I want. If my partner didn’t want to know those things, then I wouldn’t tell him (even if it did mean ridding me of my own guilt) because I should respect what he wants. You get into problems when everyone is just doing what furthers their own interest and doesn’t care about the other person. I guess this is probably why I’ve always had amicable break ups… “You take that…” “No, you go ahead and take that…” “I’ll pay you for half…” etc. If you cheat and don’t tell your partner when you know he/she would want to know, then you’re doing it for selfish reasons– ie. you want to be able to cheat in a committed relationship and also keep that committed relationship. That seems pretty selfish to me. I agree that if you cheat, then there are other issues at play that need some attention, but let’s face it… just because you use a condom doesn’t mean you won’t catch something. There are plenty of diseases you can get even if you use a condom (genital warts, herpes, etc.), so you are still putting your partner at risk if you are cheating at all… so if that’s the very least you can do for your partner, then maybe you should rethink how much you actually care about that partner at all.
Christopher the Pyro asserted
If Christine and I stopped seeing each other, I can guarantee it would be amicable and peaceful.. I would either flee the country or she would slit my throat in my sleep. As for wanting to know.. if it will cut down on the # and length of converstions we need to have, I don’t want to know when you do something that might upset me.. including if you start gang banging the USC football team and sucking off the president again. It’s not that I don’t care, it’s just not an issue for me… and I would rather not know.. because then in my reality it didn’t really happen and it is only your issue and not mine and not ours.
Christine the Lioness said this
Christopher and I sometimes see things differently… LOL!
Besides, I wouldn’t slit your throat, Christopher. I’m not the beneficiary on your insurance policy. 
fruey the Virgin asserted
Cheating is cheating. Either you’re in an “open” relationship in which you have other partners and it’s not a big deal, or you’re in a monogamous relationship. In my opinion, being monogamous - not sleeping with anyone else - is a contract of trust. Therefore, in order to cheat you already have to be part of a a moral contract. Otherwise it just isn’t cheating. If you are in a trusting relationship you are duty bound to own up to any indiscretions. Then you find out if the contract should be revoked or if you can work it out.
If you are dishonest - you are sleeping with someone else whilst letting your partner think this is not the case - then you are cheating. If you do this and get away with it, it says a lot about your own inability to have a monogamous relationship and be at peace with your life choice to live as a monogamous couple.
The question of cheating doesn’t even enter my mind. I have always been faithful to girlfriends and to my wife. If ever a situation has arisen where I may sleep with someone else, I have always openly talked about it before being tempted physically. That’s just me though. In any case, sleeping with others whilst letting your partner believe you are not is dishonest, and you are effectively living a lie. Some people can live with that, but not me!
Christine the Lioness remarked
I couldn’t agree more, Fruey. I have never cheated on a boyfriend, even when the opportunity arose and I never found it to be that difficult to say no. When I’m in a monogomous relationship, I enter that type of relationship because I want to be there. So if that’s what I want, then cheating serves no purpose for me… if I wanted to just hook up with whomever I felt like hooking up with on a whim, I would remain single and not enter into a committed situation with just one guy. Maybe I’m gullible or whatever, but I truly believe that when you decide to “be” with someone, your heart and body belong to that person and I find something very satisfying with that. No one forces you to be in a committed relationship, so if you can’t– or don’t want to– live up to the monogamy standards that are implied in being half of that relationship, don’t be in one… period. Thanks for chiming in, Fruey. Well said!
Sonic Death Monkey the Virgin added
You have just been reviewed by the Sonic Death Monkey. Swing by and check it out.
SDM
Riss the Virgin added
My husband and I actually have the same philosophy on cheating (one time indiscretions versus actual affairs). We don’t want to hear any death bed confessions and even if there’s a video, if it can be plausibly explained away lie lie lie. I understand the inner morality argument but I’ve always thought it was a little selfish for people to be ruled by it. If my husband has a one-time fling and ten years later I find out about it, I’m not going to leave him. But if he confesses to ease his own conscience then for the rest of our 40 years together I will have to think about it and doubt myself every single day. Until I snap and push him off a cliff at which point his one time indiscretion will have landed me in jail and I’ll want to kill him all over again.
Riss the Virgin remarked
Of course, he also dosn’t know about the GPS tracking device I implanted into his penis while he slept.
Christine the Lioness up'n wrote this
See… that’s just it. Ignorance is bliss, right? I’d rather know I can trust him than have to always wonder and fret if he’s being unfaithful. Besides, Riss… if you found out he cheated on you 40 years later and it apparently doesn’t matter, than why does it matter 2 days later? Does 40 years of ignorance about something mean it didn’t really happen? Either it’s acceptable or it isn’t…
Christopher the Pyro penned this
Ignorance is bliss… the longer I know Christine, the more I realize that. What Christine fails to realize is that in reality you can’t ever REALLY trust anybody so if you have convinced yourself to trust someone that is something you have tone for yourself.. it’s not based on any logical evidence.
Christopher the Pyro got all philosophical
And to make another point.. 40 years of ignorance does mean it didn’t happen.. if a tree falls in the woods and nobody is there to hear it.. did it really fall down.. yes.. does it matter.. no.
HikerHobo the Virgin thought this
So your husband has an affair then lies to you about it just to save you the stress and pain…. just like the cat ! poor logic !
Christopher the Pyro pontificated
I think the logic makes perfect sense!
Christine the Lioness commented
Christopher… there’s nothing logical about that. Some people are trustworthy… others aren’t. Sometimes we trust people we shouldn’t, and get hurt. But when that happens… our mistake wasn’t in trusting… it was in choosing the wrong person to trust. The bigger mistake is not ever trusthing anyone again because you “can’t ever REALLY trust anybody.” Do you see the logic breakdown there?
Christopher the Pyro pontificated
In my experience nobody can be trusted. Especially large breasted women with “expressive eyes”
Trouble the Pirate thought this
Too true Chris… Christine? If you want to go and take my comment all seriously, let me clarify it? Yes I was ?generalizing?? Unfortunately because of the negative connotations associated with the word these days, it is deemed an improper practice? Even though there are many instances where it is accurate to do so? This is such a case, because ?guilt? is one of the most powerful motivating factors for all humans and the only other logical reason they would tell? Anyone who says that they would tell their mate in order to be fair to them, and preserve or foster the feeling of trust in their relationship? Is at best misguided? It?s like jacking a car, then turning yourself in to the police because you are a proponent of the criminal justice system? The definition of ?cheating? is very subjective, so you make a good point that one should know what your partner would want, and deal with it in that particular way? But given the opportunity, I?m sure most partners would rather you just didn?t cheat in the first place. I also agree that ?honesty? is important in a relationship? However it should primarily apply to oneself?
As for me, I don?t cheat? I usually just leave? Not for my partner?s sake either? For my own? If I feel the need to cheat, it is because I am no longer satisfied with my partner or the circumstances of our relationship? However that?s just me? If I were to cheat, I wouldn?t tell? With all the other ?guilt trips? I?ve been sent on by women in my life? What?s one more? 
The fact that I also tend to date bisexual women also blurs the whole ?cheating? thing for me anyway?
Christopher the Pyro spake, and sayeth
Well said Trouble
Splendored the Groupie remarked
What do you guys think about a man who tries to argue that its okay to sleep with other women because with THEM, “its just sex” but his “real feelings” are with you?
Christopher the Pyro said this
Hmm…
It’s just sex with all women.. regardless.
That isn’t to say we don’t like some women more then others.. it’s just that the sex doesn’t mean more.. so I would have to call bs on that one.
Let me just be clear.
It is possible to like one women more then another, and only have “feelings” for one woman.. but that doesn’t mean that the sex is more meaningful. Only women draw meaning from who they have sex with.
Christine the Lioness uttered
The truth of the matter is… we live in a society that values marriage and monogamy… and those societal rules date way back to when men made ALL the rules and women had very little influence. So, based on that… I think it’s pretty simple… if you can’t be monogamous for whatever reason, then don’t get into a monogamous relationship with anyone. I agree with Trouble that being honest starts with being honest to yourself. There’s nothing wrong with being single and sleeping with whomever you want whenever you want (despite the people who think that is slutty or whatever– fuck them– they’re just jealous they can’t fuck whomever they want). But if you want the liberty to just hook up and do anything you want, you need to realize that you can’t ALSO have the positive things that come with a monogamous relationship (unprotected sex, a committed partner, etc.). The problem with a lot of people– both guys and girls– is that they want it all (the relationship and the freedom to act on their indiscretions). But the two can’t co-exist, and once you’ve cheated, the relationship will never be exactly what it was before you cheated (whether or not you feel guilty, or the other person finds out, or whatever). But truly, you are being unfair to your partner if they think you are in a monogamous relationship, and you are really cheating. I don’t believe people feel the need to cheat if they are happy in their relationship, and when they start to become unhappy, they need to deal with those issues instead of going into denial mode and cheating. Like I said… I’ve never cheated on a boyfriend and I’ve never found being faithful to be a difficult thing. Even when a super hot hottie wants to hook up, it’s easy to say no because I find sex with my significant other more fulfilling than casual sex, and I am much happier about the person I am if I am not a cheater.
Trouble the Pirate up'n wrote this
Well said Christine. I love sluts too
Meta Blogging : Five Interesting Places
While surfing around for inspiration - which I do mostly on other blogs - I am more often than not tempted to post on those blogs, in context, rather than steal an idea and rehash it here. So, rather than write a post of my thoughts today, I thought …
Babz the Virgin spake, and sayeth
I think that your guys’ blog is very good, and I have come a few times, but this is the first time I’ve been moved to actually comment. I find it hard to lie to my boyfriend about anything, but there’s one thing that I’m keeping from him, and it’s killing me, but I’m not entirely sure how to tell him that I cheated on him with a chick. He knows I’ve cheated on him before (and it was a mistake we moved past) but I’m not sure how he’d react to finding out that I had cheated on him with a chick just a few weeks ago. (He’s not even slightly aroused by girl-on-girl action, either.) Anyone have any advice?…
Christine the Lioness chimed in with
I have some advice, Babz… why don’t you figure out what the hell you really want (it’s obviously not this guy since you’ve now been unfaithful twice) and let this guy find a girl who won’t fuck around on him. Props to him for forgiving you once and moving past it… he’s obviously much more mature than you are. If I ever cheated on my boyfriend– which I wouldn’t– and he was forgiving enough to move beyond it, I would thank my lucky stars that I had such a cool guy and would never make that mistake again. You say it’s hard to lie to your boyfriend, but apparently you’re giving yourself a lot of practice. Not to be harsh on you, but it sounds like you’ve got a cool man that you’re fucking over which in turn will give him trust issues that some other girl will have to deal with because of you. Just my opinion.
Christopher the Pyro pontificated
O.K. He is probably lying about the whole “not digging the girl on girl” soo you could surprise him with the other girl.. ooooor if it is close to his birthday or something you can tell him you hired her as a stripper or something… but DO NOT TELL HIM… while it is likely he wont’ care about you hooking up with a girl, it is silly for you to make a confession on this one… just get over your guilt… listen to me.. not Christine.
Ben the Kingpin mentioned
It is absolutely wrong to lie, absolutely every time. Anything less than absolute truth is a form of hatred. You can *never* love someone by lying to them. Any example is nothing more than an excuse. (Doesn’t mean I live up to this standard, but that’s the standard nonetheless.)
Christopher the Pyro penned this
I disagree, some people would much rather just not know the truth.
Christine the Lioness uttered
If someone prefers not to know the truth… that just means they are not strong enough to deal with the truth because knowing the truth will force them to make a decision that is difficult for them to make and it’s easier to not be put in the situation of having to make a decision. Personally, I am only happy when I am sure that the guy I’m with will tell me the truth even when he knows that doing so might force me to make a decision he doesn’t necessarily want me to make. Relationships are about respect and I don’t respect guys who don’t have the balls to tell the truth. If I know I can trust a guy, there are a lot of other things–most things I speculate– that I can work through with him. But if you live your life always wondering if you’re being played for a fool, it just makes you crazy because you never know what you can count on. That’s just my opinion.
Ben the Kingpin up'n wrote this
My relationship with my wife did not develop into the deep, abiding, life-long love that we have now until she knew that I would never lie to her, even to “protect” her from something awful. It ate at her knowing that I would routinely lie to her to “protect” her.
Finally she said to me, “Lying to me hurts more than anything you could ‘protect’ me from.” (And there were no few small words about what right I had determining what she was capable of handling.)
Thus, I submit, Christopher is full of shit in this matter. (No offense, Christopher, just calling it as I see it.)
online gambling the Virgin stated
No comments. Well done.
—————————-
[online gambling]
martini the Virgin said this
I understand what christine is saying but i think i agree more with christopher. Yes it is unjust to the person whose been cheated on to lie and not let them change what’s to happen in their life with this information but then again why would you tell them? honesty is not alway the best policy. Truth gains nothing in these circumstances:
It is only going to hurt the other person
They will be paranoid about trust for their lifetime after thus
It is lame to ease your guilt by confessing (I agree that to lie makes you a less mature person but to confess just lifts the weight off your chest, leads to the break up that they had coming and hurts both people.
If someone has cheated it comes with the stupidity of their actions to suffer the pain of knowing what you have done and to keep that to yourself forever. Those are reprecusions if any could be. Without involving the other person. I also agree with christopher that it would not benefit one’s self to speak up about it. Maybe this can be seen as selfish. I would see it as selfless…life can go on and its only yourself who is fucked up about it.
I guess at some point in their life most people realise that they can ignore and get past things that happen within themselves. The cheater should use their best judgement in order to clarify whether it is worth risking the loss deemed on how their partner would react. Having said all that there are different types of cheating. Just some of my thoughts.
Christine the Lioness scribbled
I don’t think relationships are about “punishing” either party. If you cheat and your partner never finds out and you live with the guilt, that’s not particularly good for you either… I think it’s better to ‘fess up so both people have the info they need to decide if the relationship can continue. And if not, then they move on and end up with other people. The other aspect is… once you do something once, you’ve crossed a line and it’s easier to do it again. It’s like that with everything from cheating on a test in school to killing another person. So if you do it and get away with it… even if you promise you’ll never do it again (only to yourself), you are already living with the guilt and that guilt doesn’t get any worse by doing it again. You’ve opened a door in that relationship that can’t ever be closed. I can only speak for myself, but I’d rather know the truth. If I can forgive him and move on, then I would. And if I can’t, then we can end it and find other people to start fresh with. Ending a relationship isn’t the end of the world… and if you’re cheating on him or her, maybe you need to examine for yourself if you really want to be with that person or not.
Christopher the Pyro asserted
You should listen to Christine she is the moral compass of the world.. don’t worry I have a nice post comming on this.. all I can say.. is that if you listen to Christine in regards to morality.. you will have a very very clean concience… that said.. you will also probably be very very broke.
Christine the Lioness said this
I can’t wait to hear this…
Adam the Virgin got all philosophical
I lie to my wife all the time. I am living with another woman right now and going to meet her family. I am working in another country but lied to my wife when we were together in the US. I would pick fights so I could storm out and go sleep with my girlfriend saying I needed time away from my wife….I am one clever fox
Christopher the Pyro penned this
Nice.
I have just been dethroned as the biggest asshole on the site.
Christine the Lioness added
Honey, you lost that title to Eric a long time ago. Now, it might be a toss up between Eric and Adam.
ProphetJoe the Irreverent uttered
Either you’re a faithful person or your not. Either your honest and have integrity, or you don’t. Cheating on your spouse, or in this case, girlfriend isn’t REALLY the issue, is it?
‘tine earlier wrote to ‘topher: “Besides, I wouldnt slit your throat, Christopher. Im not the beneficiary on your insurance policy. -) “
Christine, I think you miss the big picture — somebody IS the beneficiary, do it for that person!
Christine the Lioness up'n wrote this
Except I’m afraid it might be his ex-wife who I blame for much of Christopher’s damage. Actually, considering how he feels about her, I have a feeling that was a detail Christopher already took care of.
Christopher the Pyro remarked
Yep, took care of that detail 4 sure, and Christine is only gets money if I don’t die of a stabbing, poisoning or car crash. However this week after she threatened to ” burn me alive in my house while I slept”, I needed to add that to the list of ways she doesn’t get paid if I die.
Beeutifulgurl the Virgin chimed in with
hey guys, found this site…and decided to post. I have a question - my husband and I dated for a couple years, split up for three months, got back together and have since gotten married. He feels just like Christine and I am sort of like Christopher. When we first got together in the very beginning, I was foolish and was messing around. After a month, I got serious and pulled my act together. Before we got married, I told him most of my past and the things I have done. I felt if I told the whole thing, I made myself vulnerable to be hurt. Some of the things in my past I felt were irrelevant since they weren’t “with him”. I have never ever ever been open with feelings but did with him. It took a while but he forgave me and we got married. TA-DA!! But should things that happened before we got SERIOUS really affect our marriage now seeing as I have been faithful to him since…I feel like he will never truly believe me so I ask why is he with me??
Christopher the Pyro added
Look.. he doesn’t need to know.. it is just better to lie. Nobody wants to find out how slutty their current partner was before they were with them.. (even if it is only a little slutty). Simply said.. keep it to yourself.
Christine the Lioness uttered
I completely disagree. It’s true that whatever you did before you guys got together is irrelevant. Period. No one should ever hold that against anyone. What you both do NOW is what is important and lying to each other creates a current relationship that is built on people not knowing the truth about each other. For me personally, I’d rather know the truth and be in a situation where I might have to forgive Christopher but at least I trust him to be honest, then to always wonder if he’s being truthful or not– and feel insecure pretty much all the time– because I know he lies to me. If you’re willing to lie, you’re willing to lie about other things as well.
Christopher the Pyro quibbed this
Well it’s only irrelevant until you tell.. then it becomes reliant and it can and will be held against you. I thought the question was whether she should tell him about her past… not her present!
Trouble the Pirate quibbed this
You see the shit this plugin of yours digs up Chris?
Beeutifulgurl… Just avoid the whole issue and become swingers…
Christopher the Pyro scribbled
Good call trouble.. I’ve been trying to convince Christine of that for years.. and while is is very cool with gang bangs she doesn’t like sharing my dick.
Trouble the Pirate up'n wrote this
Typical woman! So fu(kin’ selfish.
ProphetJoe the Irreverent said this
“If you’re willing to lie, you’re willing to lie about other things as well.”
Exactly, which is why I previously said: “Either youre a faithful person or your not. Either your honest and have integrity, or you dont.“
Christopher the Pyro penned this
What! This whole argument is crazy, I like all day long. I’m in marketing my job is to lie and deceive the world and yet I think I’m a fairly honest person most of the time .
ProphetJoe the Irreverent chimed in with
So you admit it, you’re part of the problem… 
)
Marketing is supposed to be about extolling the virtues of your product, not deceiving the public into buying it! Now, the focus is so overtly centered on sex — the not-so-hidden message is: “Our product will (in some unfathomable way or another) make you more appealing to the opposite sex”.
When I was a kid, car makers told you about things like: how many races this model had won, it’s gas mileage, it’s horsepower, torque, warranty, etc. Now, more often than not, the car is virtually hidden amongst the bright lights, big-boobed bikinis and loud pop music — it’s almost as if they’re hiding the car (and perhaps that’s the real intent )
I think the best series of commercials on TV right now are the Ford Truck commercials with Mike Rowe. They tout the frame construction of the F-150 over the competition and their awards. They highlight their innovative features AND use humor too! The most unbelievable thing is that there are no bikinis nor fake boobs in any of the ads that I can recall (and I remember large breasts when I see them).
Alas, manufacturing has moved away from building a better (quality) product to focusing on the marginal revenue of the product. SO MANY items are cheaply made — err, I mean they have “design obsolescence” built into the product — because the marginal revenue is maximized over the marginal costs, so profits are maximized for the shareholders. The true innovators (take iPod as a recent example) build quality products. Just look at the number of clone mp3 players out there. Most are cheap pieces of shit, but they’re priced much cheaper than an iPod — still iPod has the market share and people are willing to pay more $$ for the innovative, quality product.
Sorry for the rant… carry on, and tell the truth from now on Christopher!
Christopher the Pyro uttered
PJ, honestly you don’t want to know the truth and you can’t handle it.
Christine the Lioness scribbled
There’s a difference between showing a pretty girl next to a car and letting the viewer of the ad come to the conclusion that he can somehow get that girl being the loser that he is if he buys that car, and flat out lying to “your mate.” If the ad assured the viewer they’d get the girl, that’s lying. Marketing, although some companies take this to the Nth degree, is about making your product look good. We live in a world where no one is going to read a list of the virtues of a product. They look at an add for two seconds and decide if it appeals to them or not. That’s all. Marketing has just kept up with the way people behave.
Christopher’s company is one of those that goes to the extreme with their marketing, but I don’t think he typically carries that over into our relationship. Although for all I really know he could be lying to me all the time. I just have to trust him based on what I know about him, and I’ve been very clear to him that the consequences of lying to me will result in me leaving, so that gives him the information he needs to choose whether he wants to lie about something or not and if he does, and I leave, there will be no surprises.
But I agree with PJ, that if you’re okay with lying to the people you are in relationships with, you are pretty much okay with lying about everything to those people. I think the nature of our job and doing it well is something entirely different.
ProphetJoe the Irreverent uttered
Christine, if you (or ‘topher) are comfortable lying in your jobs, then I think you’re just rationalizing it to yourself — “Oh, I have to lie through my teeth at work because the company says so, but I wouldn’t do that at home, or with my friends, or with my partner…” — it’s still lying. You spoke earlier about fibs. A small lie told to avoid hurting someone’s feelings. I see the difference between a fib and a lie (which is told to deceive someone for gain), but I don’t see much of a difference between “corporate lying” and “personal lying” — either way you’re not to be trusted.
After all, would you say the former head of Enron was an honest man “in his personal life“?
Christopher the Pyro pontificated
Look.. I 99.9% of all marketing is 100% untrue. Most people just don’t get it. It’s why people think that a Coach bag is somehow superior to a Wall-Mart brand. It’s not but the marketing say’s it is. That is lying.
Christopher the Pyro uttered
PJ…
Hmm… Like I said. I’m in marketing my job is to manipulate.. lying is a strong word.. but I doubt many things would hold up with much scrutiny. As for why I lie.. I make my own rules in that department ( at work ) becuase it makes my life easier and makes me weathier. It’s not hard to justify infact I sleep just fine at night.
Additionally it’s not ok to fib if it isn’t ok to lie.. fibbing and lying are relative statements and both can and are done to protect people.
ProphetJoe the Irreverent scribbled
I agree… and the sad part is that both bags are being made side-by-side by the same 12 year old Chinese boy who lied when he told his mother he was in school when he was actually working in the sweat shop for 12 cents a day just to save enough money to buy a new pirated DVD… it’s so sad.
)
Christopher the Pyro quibbed this
That’s the truth of it.
Materials = Same
Labor = Same
Difference = Marketing
ProphetJoe the Irreverent mentioned
Well, I might argue that the real difference is the intelligence of the consumer 
Beeutifulgurl the Virgin added
Okay guys! I just wanted to know about what happened BEFORE!! We are married and I will not break that vow. I don’t want to talk about my past and feel like it is irrelevant, just wanted you to stand behind me on that. 
The truth hurts…but if it doesn’t involve my marraige currently, why talk about it.
I have never crossed any line since we have gotten serious with each other and married, not even “harmless” flirting. I actually came across a quote from Pat Robertson which said that in a relationship, all you should say is that you haven’t always been a saint but you don’t want to talk about it and are not that way anymore. If you open that door, you have to deal with it being brought up time and time again.
So, thanks guys!! **And no thanks to the swingers invite… 
Christine the Lioness mentioned
Lying is an interesting thing I suppose. Does not telling the whole truth constitute lying? If an employee that I want to get rid of is applying for a job somewhere else and his potential new employer calls me for a reference, do I tell the potential employer the whole truth about what an awful employee he is? That would probably get me sued by the employee and keep him working for me longer. If the company I work for employs me to help their business, and getting rid of this employee would clearly do so, do I have a responsibility to the potential employer calling me (whom I’ve never met and probably will never talk to again), or to the company that pays me? So by omitting all the fact that said employee is late to work all the time– is that a lie? Do I have a greater responsibility to help someone I don’t know make a good hiring decision, or do I have a greater responsibility to the company I work for and the family I support?
I don’t think there is ever a situation with any type of work– at least in positions where you have a great deal of responsibility– that you won’t at some point be put in a position where you know lying will benefit you. Now is that different than embezzling everyone’s 401 
s and saying you didn’t? Yeah, I think it is.
Christopher the Pyro mentioned
… Well I’m sorry.. I’m not telling about my embezzling.. regardless if it is the right thing to do or not
Christine the Lioness added
Apparently the parenthesis-k-parenthesis (as in 401) is also the kissy lips. Just so you know…
And don’t worry, babe. I already told them.
Christopher the Pyro spake, and sayeth
Well luckly for me.. my company knows how untrust worthy women are.. and they would never believe a word you say.
Christine the Lioness stated
But a jury might.
ProphetJoe the Irreverent commented
Do YOU want some schmoe on a jury to decide your fate???
Christopher the Pyro chimed in with
I’m not worried. Men are generally found to be perceived as more trust worthy in study after study.. (this is why most commercials have a man’s voice and not a womans).
Christine the Lioness penned this
???
Of course he neglects to mention that the study interviewed only men and didn’t we have a post on this site (posted by Christopher no less) about how men all lie for each other and women are honest so it’s better to have male friends? Yeah, I do recall that.
Living with Christopher is like living in a funhouse of paradoxes and oxymorons.
Christopher the Pyro thought this
Actually that isn’t true at all. Simply put people naturally trust men more then women… if that wasn’t the case you would hear a womans voice in 90% of gender neutral commercials.. and not a mans.
Christine the Lioness thought this
That’s just ridiculous.
Anyone who believes a man is more trustworthy than a woman hasn’t had much experience with men. That’s for sure.
Trouble the Pirate commented
The idea that men are ‘less trustworthy’ than women is only perpetuated by the FACT that men get caught far more often than women… The reason is NOT that we are LESS trust-worthy, we’re just not as PROFICIENT at perfidious behavior, and prevaricating perception as women are…
Trouble the Pirate uttered
Oh, and Christine, your own legal system seems to hold ‘not telling the whole truth’ on par with lying…
However, idealistic approaches to lying are pointless, they go completely against human nature… Even a two-year old will lie before telling the truth, even when there is no precedence of punishment for a particular behavior…
truth telling is a nurtured response…
Words like “white-lie”, “half-truth” and “fib” are our own efforts to justify the fact that we as a species cannot live up to our own lofty ideals, because that’s all they are… In the ‘real’ world, lofty ideals often take a back-seat to what is practically applicable, or beneficial to those parties involved…
Christopher the Pyro got all philosophical
At least you will earn her wrath of a response….
Christine the Lioness thought this
Whether it’s in our nature to lie or not is irrelevant. As intelligent beings with the ability to reason and predict consequences of our actions, we can look at a situation and gauge whether lying benefits us or not. I don’t take any issue with that. And I certainly understand why people do lie.
My point is that we have the ability to choose what kind of relationship we want to be in. If I wanted to be in a loveless relationship with a 90 year old guy who spent ungodly amounts of money on me in return for my being his armpiece– I probably could have done that. But it’s not what I personally want. I want to be in a relationship with someone I consider my best friend, whom I trust implicitly. For me, that has to be there (that implicit trust) before I can make the decision to always stand beside him and support him through thick and thin no matter what. And I want a guy that I am willing to do that for. So does lying to each other fit into the parameters of what I’m looking for in a relationship? No. It doesn’t. And if whomever I’m with feels like lying is an acceptable part of a relationship, then we want different things and that is probably not the guy for me.
I think relationships work for the long haul when one person isn’t duping the other into believing something that isn’t true. At least respect the other person enough to let them go find the kind of relationship that will make them happy if you don’t have the same view of relationships as they do.
So whether or not we can as a species live up to lofty ideas of always telling the truth. When the point comes where we have the option to lie or not, we are given a choice and do have the ability to choose not to lie. It’s just that most people don’t because telling the truth is a more difficult road than lying once the consequences of that lie are faced.
Christine the Lioness remarked
Oh btw, Trouble… in response to part one of your comment… if men get caught more often than women in lies, then where is the evidence that women are lying at all? Logically, the more I do something, the higher the likelihood of being caught. Wouldn’t that be sort of like assuming that everyone who gets busted for drunk driving probably drives drunk much less than the rest of the population that doesn’t get caught? To assume that the people who don’t get busted are actually drinking and driving MORE than the others is based on no proof whatsoever.
Trouble the Pirate hunt n' pecked this
No Christine, it is based on the FACT that a cat-burgler who is very GOOD at stealing jewels or doing what he/she does… IS less likely to get caught than a bumbling novice… I was partly being facetious as well… I should have done this…
Trouble the Pirate chimed in with
Id est… If you are a very convincing driver when under-the-influence, barring getting pulled over for some other infraction and breathing in the cops face, you are LESS likely to be caught than someone who swerves across the median after 2 berry wine-coolers… 
Christine the Lioness penned this
The sheer number of times you do something increases the likelihood of getting caught doing it. You can’t possibly argue with that.
AND… to assume that the female gender lies more often than the male gender based on information that states the male gender gets caught doing it more tells me two things: 1. Men aren’t smart enough to figure out they aren’t good at this yet, and 2. To be able to make an assumption based on evidence that states the opposite is true, shows that your evidence isn’t worth much anyway, so it should be discounted altogether bringing you back to square one with no evidence to support an opinion either way.
Christopher the Pyro asserted
The sheer number of times is a factor in being caught but trouble is correct that a more important factor is the skill level.. hence why women get caught so little.. and men get caught so often. Men are just more honest.. hence they lie less.. hence they get caught more because they don’t get enough practice.
Trouble the Pirate chimed in with
Yes Chris you understand… I’m stating that ’sheer number of times’ can apply to probability problems like rolling dice or tossing coins… Not for activities which have vast and complex mitigating or enhancing factors such as skill level…
Christine the Lioness pontificated
Weren’t you the one that posted the joke about how if a man goes out and a woman calls ten of his friends they’ll all lie for him, but if a man calls ten of the wife’s friends they’ll all tell the truth that she wasn’t with them? There’s an element of truth in every joke or it wouldn’t be funny.
Christopher the Pyro stated
Loyalty is also a positive trait, much more valuable then honesty since we have already proved honesty is #1 a myth and #2 relative.
Christine the Lioness thought this
Well if the guy in your joke was loyal to his wife, there’d be no cheating on her, would there? And therefore, no joke. Maybe the problem is who you feel you owe your loyalty to. I think you owe your loyalty to the person you choose to be your mate.
I would always be more loyal to my boyfriend than my friends. The whole idea of choosing one special person to be with isn’t so you can lie to them. If that’s what you think a good solid relationship is about, no wonder there’s so much divorce. You should respect the person you’re with enough to be honest with them if that’s what they want, and be loyal to them. It’s not really that difficult of a concept is it?
You make it seem like telling the truth is the hardest thing on earth. If you make a point not to do things you’re ashamed of or that your mate wouldn’t approve of, it’s not really that hard to be honest, is it?
Christopher the Pyro penned this
Christine you haven’t told the truth 1 time in any post you have wrote today so don’t lecture me about how hard it is to tell the truth.
Christine the Lioness uttered
I’ve been completely honest. You’re just embarrassed.
Christopher the Pyro spake, and sayeth
And thats why she just called to apologize for being such a liar..
Mara the Peacemaker mentioned
I don’t if men lie less…they just make up stupid shit that gets them caught.
Lily the Virgin hunt n' pecked this
I’m older than all of you the way it sounds. I was married to my husband for 36 years when he died. I was the second wife. He told me he had cheated on his first wife for all the 11 years they were married. Actually, I was his last “cheat.” He told me he didn’t love her all that time, but he loved more more than anything and all the previous affairs were for sex only. Two years after he died, I now find out that there was a rumor that he and another person he worked with may have had an affair - for a long time. She was/is married and has cheated on her husband from day 1 and never plans to divorce him because of the lifestyle he gives her. I think he knows about her affairs but looks the other way. I was insecure from the day I met her because she is beautiful. But my husband said nothing was going on. My problem now is I don’t know how to find out the truth because he’s dead to talk to. He told me he loved me before he died, but it still doesn’t take away the incredible hurt and feeling of betrayal I am feeling. I have gone to psychics and now undergoing hypnotherapy for my depression. I tried talking to her but she laughed and said I was crazy and need to see a psychiatrist and go on meds. I believe that spouses need to be honest with each other - and I agree that when you make a commitment of marriage that it carries with it the need to feel trust. My problem is that I know that his infidelity was 100% possible because he cheated on his first wife. Adding to my hurt is that one psychic (after my spilling my guts and naming her and his secretary as another possible) that she sent me a “message” via email that supposedly was fromhim, admitting to cheating on me from day one but that he loved me all the time and the affairs were for his ego and there was nothing I could have done for his ego that the affairs did.
Christopher the Pyro stated
“Adding to my hurt is that one psychic”
Listen. Lily. Phychics are fake… 100% any which way you cut it. You need to realize that first and avoid going to them for any type of anything.
Second even if he did cheat does it change the times you guys shared? I don’t think it does, if you guys loved each other and treated each other good and gave each other a good life, nothing else really matters. Especially things you can’t ever really know for sure.
Trouble the Pirate commented
Seconded 100% Lily. “Psychics” prey on people who are in a volatile emotional state, it makes it easy for them to “suggest” things to you that would otherwise be blatantly obvious as a con.
Why give the bitch the satisfaction? Your husband chose to spend his life with you, that is what matters, commitment of the heart outweighs anything else.
No one that you give your money to will ever tell you the truth, or even what you want to hear, otherwise you would not need to go back and give them more money…
If you continue to obsess about this it will ruin the 36 years you had with the man, will that make you happy? I doubt it. Remember the good times and move on to create many more…
Christine the Lioness said this
I guess I see the other side of what Lily is saying. Knowing the truth about something helps you put it into a perspective you can begin to deal with even if you know it will take time. After breaking up with my ex-fiance several years ago, we finally talked on the phone one day and that is what I asked him. I suspected he’d been cheating and I just wanted to know for sure if he had. Since there was nothing for him to gain by lying anymore, I figured he’d tell the truth. I had no interest in being with him again, but I just wanted to know for myself.
I do, however, agree with about half of what Christopher and Trouble are saying. First, psychics do give people some level of comfort which is why people tend to seek them out when they’re emotionally distraught. But they aren’t real. You could probably get as much comfort from going out with your girlfriends and sharing a bottle of wine. There is nothing more to a psychic than a person who wants to exploit your pain and suck money out of you. You could spend half on a self-help book and a yoga class.
Second, your need to understand the truth about your relationship is 100% understandable, and on some level, this idea that Christopher and Trouble are putting forth about how even if your husband did cheat, you were the more important person because he made you his wife, is something that I think women find very difficult to grasp. At least I do… or did. I think fidelity means much more to women than men and for a lot of women, fidelity is a sign that a man loves them. That’s why we want to know after it’s all over if he was faithful or not. Because if he was, it will give us the proof we seek to know he loved us. If he wasn’t, we can begin to deal with the fact that he didn’t love us as much as we thought he did to begin with.
The problem in that… is that men don’t see infidelity necessarily the same way. In past relationships I’ve had, I’ve always made it very clear I’d leave the guy if he ever cheated. But every guy at least that I’ve dated, have told me that if I cheated on them, it wouldn’t necessarily be a deal-breaker. I’m guessing because they don’t see cheating as proof that I didn’t love them. I think this relates to the fact that men and women look for different things in meaningful relationships.
So keeping that whole thing in mind… that it is entirely possible that your husband did cheat and still loved you more than anything (which feels like such an oxymoron to me, but we have to look at his actions from his male perspective, right?), I think you need to reflect on other things that HE would have felt were signs of his love for you to decide how he felt and what your relationship really amounted to. Men tend to take care of the women they love– physically and emotionally– did he do that? They allow you to be the only person they’ll really express their feelings to, and you’ll be the only one he cries in front of. Did he allow you to be that close to him? When men love women, they get protective of her and will defend her when someone criticizes her. Did he do that?
Those are the ways men show their love for a woman. Many are also faithful because they know it’s important to the woman they’re with… but I don’t think most men include fidelity in their own male check-off lists of what comprises true love. I don’t think you should try to trick yourself into only remembering the good times. It’s important to remember things for what they really were– good and bad. But don’t forget that if you’re trying to get into his head and understand his actions, you’ll only be able to do that from your own point of view– which is simply impossible because men and women think very differently. So just do your best to examine it from the way he would see it– as well as you can– and accept that there are some things you will know for sure, and some things you’ll never know and that’s just life.
Lily the Virgin chimed in with
I appreciate all your thoughtful comments. All which I agree with, but, you know, the head and the heart don’t always work together. The main reason I went to psychics is I was hoping to “talk” to my husband and ask him what he wanted to say but never did the day he died and said to me, “We have to talk.” And since the quandary is that I know it was 100% possible he cheated because of his past history, I still want to believe that he loved me enough not to cheat on me. Difficult to do in the face of “evidence” I’ve learned since I first heard about the rumor.
The questions that Christine the Lioness asked I’ve already verbalized, but I think coming again from a total stranger is helpful:
Question 1: Did he take care of me physically and emotionally. Yes and no. Everyone, even perfect strangers, came before me. Their feelings always mattered more.
Question 2: Did he express his personal feelings to me? He did when he was pursuing me. After we got married, the endless hours of talking forever stopped. He entertained others - men and women - with his stories. Everyone thought he was a great guy. You would have to. He had that effect on people.
Question 3: Did he protect and defend me from criticism? No. He avoided conflict. He didn’t like to displease people so he would remain quiet.
I think I realize now during the most terrible past 2 months of my life (worse than when he died because I felt loved but now I feel betrayed) that it’s better to be his girlfriend rather than his wife. You’re treated better since he always wanted to impress people - but no longer had to impress his wife.
Again, thanks. I’m still on my journey to find out whatever I can of the “truth.” Which is something I think women understand more than men. But, for women who may say, “Forget it and move on. It’s not worth getting sick over. He’s gone; you’ll never know,” I say, “You have to walk in my shoes to understand.”
Mara the Peacemaker spake, and sayeth
Lily, I totally understand wanting “the truth” and I do get that a lot of people would simply ask whether it matters. If it matters to you, then that’s all that is important. When my brother was killed, my mother had to know what exactly happened. To some, it seemed pointless — knowing all of the facts wouldn’t change how he died or the fact that he was dead. But she had to know for her peace of mind. If knowing the truth about your husband will help you make some sort of peace, then by all means, continue in your journey.
I do think though that in this journey, you should be prepared for some things. One, you may never find out the entire truth (whatever that is). Your husband isn’t here to question, he can’t defend himself against accusations or claims made by other people and he can’t explain his actions to you. So it is possible that there may always be something missing from the puzzle or something you would like clarified that will simply will not be. Two, the truth may really hurt. Be prepared for that. And three, the truth doesn’t necessarily change the reality of your marriage. You posed some questions and frankly, it doesn’t sound like your husband was a bad person. He sounds like someone who loved you in his own way but also someone who was terribly flawed (as we all are). As Christine pointed out, the fact that your husband may have cheated doesn’t necessarily mean that he didn’t love you. It may but again, he isn’t here to explain his actions. There is a certain amount of peace to be gained from that knowledge as well.
ProphetJoe the Irreverent commented
Lily,
First of all, my condolences on the passing of your husband.
Secondly, as Mara points out above, your husband isn’t here to defend or explain his actions. It is easy (hell, in my experience, I would say inevitable) for gossip and innuendo to be bantered about as “the truth” in such a situation. There are a significant number of people out there who love to “stir the pot”. They gain self-importance (in their minds anyway) by knowing something that you don’t know — even if that information is, in reality, a myth or a lie. They need to spread that information (again, even if it is a lie) around in order to make themselves feel even more important.
In regard to the “other woman” — I’d like to tell you about a man who was my neighbor many years ago who was in a similar situation as your husband. He was married and had 3 kids. He was the president of a local company and he had an affair with his secretary. Eventually, he divorced his wife and married his secretary.
A few years later, there was another secretary in the company who (apparently) was obsessed with becoming his third wife. She came on to him on several occasions and he rebuked her advances every time (he really felt his second wife was his soul mate). It didn’t matter. She led everyone in the company to believe that she was sleeping with him. The man considered firing her, but was afraid of legal liabilities and the bad publicity it might cause (plus the fact most people would assume he was having an affair because of his past affair). He did tell his wife about the situation and things were tense for many, many weeks.
One day, when this man was scheduled to stay overnight in a nearby town for a business meeting, the secretary called the man’s wife and told her that she was his mistress and that they had sex that evening in the nearby town. She also told the wife that the man was going to get a divorce and marry her and that they were deeply in love. Fortunately, the man had suddenly come down with the flu and decided to stay home and let his subordinates run the meeting, so the wife had concrete evidence that the secretary was lying through her teeth because her husband was asleep in their bedroom!
In the end, the secretary was let go because of “poor performance”, but many people were sure that it was because the wife had found out about “the affair” — the affair which never happened! It took months, but the truth eventually made its way through the grapevine and people at the company realized that she had been a complete whack-job and had fabricated everything.
So I guess the moral of the story is that you can’t believe everything you hear — even when it’s coming from the “horses mouth” (the supposed mistress) and that getting the flu isn’t always the worst thing in the world. My neighbor used to say getting the flu saved his life
In the end, I hope you find peace of mind and comfort in your heart. And remember, gossip is not the same thing as memories…
Trouble the Pirate up'n wrote this
I will share my personal experience, so please indulge me. I married at 24. Four years later I was separated and spent 3 more painful years in divorce proceedings. My ex married her boyfriend the same month our divorce was finalized. I always suspected that she had been with him while we were still together, towards the latter part, and I’m sure she was with him while we were separated [he was living with her… Duh!]
Many well-meaning… And some not-so-well-meaning people recounted to me their suspicions and ‘proof’ that she was having an ‘affair’ behind my back… And it did hurt, because I had fully committed to our relationship and marriage, and was completely faithful to her, so yes my ego was bruised to say the least.
A couple years after we were divorced and she had remarried, I asked her for the truth, thinking why would she lie now, and that it might bring me some closure… She still denied it… Yet I still had my suspicions however, as part of our problems were that I am not convinced she is an entirely truthful sort of person…
Now, I realize that the situation is not exactly the same as Lily’s… But what I learned from the whole experience is this… Sometimes “Closure” cannot come from asking questions, or even receiving answers. If one seeks closure, one will not necessarily receive it from someone else. I had to MAKE my own closure by coming to terms with the situation on my own, I analyzed the situation and my feelings about it, and concluded that regardless of whether she cheated on me or not, it did not […nor could not] change the outcome. Our marriage failed as a result of many mistakes we both made, many of which were influenced by external pressures, the folly of youth and selfish tendencies/inflexibilities on both our parts.
The results of our union are two beautiful boys whom I am lucky enough to have a good relationship with, she is remarried and is happy, her husband is a nice guy who takes very good care of our sons and I have moved on to a happier life myself, with a more compatible woman and our own beautiful child… As far as I am concerned, I have all the closure I need…
“Sometimes no-one will close the door behind them, and you just have to reach out, grab the handle… And slam it yourself…”
I hope you find the peace you are seeking Lily. 
ProphetJoe the Irreverent uttered
Geez, Trouble — if you keep telling heartfelt stories about yourself, we’re going to start thinking that you’re not just another drunken cad living in the Cayman Islands so as to avoid criminal prosecution in another region of the world…
Christine the Lioness thought this
The point I’d like to reiterate though to Lily, is that while it’s okay to find closure for yourself and for some that’s discovering more of the truth than others before they can come to terms, you can’t let that need overpower logic. If your search for truth is leading you to psychics, then you’ve already shot yourself in the foot. You’ll never find any truth there. So when the need for truth becomes more important than truth itself, you are just muddying the waters. At some point– and it is different for everyone– you will have to just decide what and who you will believe and what and who you will reject. In Trouble’s case, his wife may very well have lied about the affair years after and in my case with my ex-fiance, I really do believe he was telling the truth about not having an affair. Will either of us really know the truth– not really because we have to rely on other people with other agendas– but based on what we know, we do come to some sort of agreement with ourselves on what we want to believe.
In addition, as trite as this will sound, time will lessen your need to really understand what happened. Of course that doesn’t really help because what matters is how you’re feeling right now.
Trouble the Pirate hunt n' pecked this
PJ… Though I cannot categorically deny avoiding criminal prosecution in other regions […note the plural], don’t make it sound like I am an expatriat… 
I’m born & bred bitches…
To the charges of being a “drunken cad?” well, I plead ‘no contest…’
Holla! 
Christine the Lioness mentioned
I’m appalled. Do people still use the word ‘cad?’ Guess if you were born before the 70s…
ProphetJoe the Irreverent mentioned
Hey, I’m just trying to broaden your horizons and evolve the English language
free breast exams of the Virgin commented
Technically that would be regression… Or even retrogradation… [a word even Mozilla doesn’t know apparently] …hence one could call PJ “Retro” based on his perfunctory verbosity… Or not… 
Trouble the Pirate spake, and sayeth
I could not make head nor tail of the spam above…
Trouble the Pirate up'n wrote this
Forsooth, methinks thou art most punctiliously veracious ProphetJoe, such a knavish lout am I…
Molestation of the Virgin stated
This THREAD is in retrograde…
Christine the Lioness said this
Ok… I think we seriously need a new post. LOL.
Butt Pirate the Virgin spake, and sayeth
Hold on, y’all. I’m still looking up some of them bigs words.
ProphetJoe the Irreverent hunt n' pecked this
ARRGGGG!!
