Christine the Lioness (3123)
Christopher the Pyro (1988)
ProphetJoe the Irreverent (1264)
Trouble the Pirate (604)
Keith the Director (573)
Mara the Peacemaker (533)
eric the Lil' Devil (352)
AJ the Zen Master (305)
Ben the Kingpin (213)
Haas the Addict (187)
Christine 2 the Mercenary (131) Lei the Mercenary (124) Katie the Mercenary (115)
Ben2 the Soldier (56) Christopher the Pyro stated
This situation is really rare.. the way it was describe of course it is rape, however in real life the woman should notice the outright sores, and also she should bring her own condom.
This whole issue is a bitch because basically I think it people are wacky when they are drunk or hooking up.. I mean not EVERYBODY makes GREAT decisions like Christine when they are drunk. I make less then intelligent decisions when I’m drinking, hence one of the main reasons I don’t drink much anymore. So if two drunk people hook up and the girl decides the next day she was raped that blows.. and that is a real situation.. and we want to add more variables to this. MAYBE women should stay out of situations where they are hooking up at a party or in these situations because if people take time to get to know people your not going to choose a crowded party to hook, where there is a condom shortage. I really think that when people put themselves in these situations they deserve what they get.. if you don’t want raped or to be put in these situations make better decisions before hand.
Christine the Lioness commented
Christopher’s sort of muddling the issue here by integrating things that were never part of the original post– drinking too much, saying it was rape the next day when she actually did consent, etc. Christopher loves to add more variables to things so that he can prove a point instead of just sticking to the actual facts at hand.
The point is, in the situation I described, the state of Maryland says that was not a rape. I think it was. I think any law that states it’s not rape if a woman withdraws her consent during the action, is setting itself up for problems. There are of course situations where a woman says yes, then says the next day it was rape, or she doesn’t really ever say no at all, so consent is implied, etc. but that’s not what we’re talking about here.
She could have brought her own condom, but that’s not relevant either because she believed him when he said he had one. If he’d said no off the bat, that he didn’t have a condom, she probably (and I realize this is speculation) would have stopped it at that point and had him go get one, or go and gotten one herself.
Whether or not the situation is rare, is also irrelevant. It’s rare that someone picks up a screwdriver and stabs someone to death with it, but because he used a screwdriver (which is much more rare than using a knife) doesn’t make it not a murder.
It might help Christopher to turn the situation around and look at it like this… if a guy decides to hook up with a girl, takes off her panties, and sees she’s covered with sores, does he have a right to say “Whoa. Sorry. I’m not aroused anymore,” get up and leave? Of course he does. The difference is, the woman can’t force him to go ahead and have sex with her if he doesn’t want to. But the issue of “rights” is the same. A woman should have the same right to change her mind. To say he should be forced to go ahead and have sex with “sore girl” because he got himself into that situation by deciding to take off her clothes is just ludicrous. If you’re going to recognize peoples’ accountability of getting themselves into situations, you also have to allow them to take accountability for deciding to get themselves out when they make the decision to do so.
Christopher the Pyro scribbled
Well you love to paint black and white pictures when it is not. This is the same as before.. if you don’t want raped don’t put yourself in those situations. You have a right not to be raped but you still will be raped if you put yourself in bad situations regardless of your right. The reality of life is that rights mean very little so we can only count on our own intelligence.. it doesn’t matter what the law is because nobody knowns that law.. even if they did it still doesn’t affect behavior. People don’t not kill because they are afraid of the death penalty. So if you don’t want raped don’t put yourself in bad situations.. whether it is rape or not.. really doesn’t matter becuase it doesn’t change or improve the problem / situation.
Christine the Lioness said this
Fear of the death penalty is the only thing that’s kept you alive all those times when you really, really pissed me off. 
But you’re sort of proving my point… when it becomes a law, it does become black and white, which is an argument for not having a law that states a woman can’t accuse a man of rape if she changes her mind after intercourse has started. Regardless of whether the guy will rape her or not anyway is irrelevant. What’s relevant here is that she has legal recourse and the state can accuse the guy of raping her if he really did rape her– as opposed to not being able to prosecute someone who commits a rape because of this ridiculous law.
You’re missing the point. It has absolutely nothing to do with what kind of situations you put yourself in, or preventing a rape from happening. It has everything to do with the laws regarding rape after one has been committed.
Christopher the Pyro commented
I’m not missing the point.. you could have no laws… or tons of laws the only way this doesn’t happen is if women prevent it by not putting themselves in these situations.. if it is rape or not is really an individual call on a case by case basis. I don’t really think if I taggin u and eric walks in and then leaves and your like stop and then we continue that constitutes as rape.
Christine the Lioness hunt n' pecked this
Again, you’re trying to use scenarios that don’t have anything to do with this. If we say bye to Eric and go back to screwing, you’re right. It’s obviously not rape. But in the situation described above, that girl cannot legally accuse that guy (who you’ve already agreed clearly raped her) of rape because of a law that takes into account only one of many factors– that she initially consented. That law prevails and prevents the state from charging that guy with rape. It’s this law that prevents cases from being looked at on a case by case basis– which is precisely how they should be handled. Do you see? THAT is the problem with this law.
Trouble the Pirate got all philosophical
Using your specific example, and quoting, “Go get one [condom],” she says. “I’ll wait.” …to me at this point, she has now explicitly stated her additional conditions to giving her consent. If the man now fails to meet those conditions before begining intercourse with her… He rapes her… Most states which have revised their laws, could cover such a situation easily. If the case were tried only by a judge in MD or NC [for example] their hands might be tied by the law and precedence only… But a jury of peers could rule on the particular extenuating circumstances & evidence… The judge would probably still have to pass sentence based solely on precedence and the current outlines for sentencing, but ergo that is how laws/sentences get changed/revised anyway… Archetype Norma McCorvey still had to have her baby, but the case her two ambitious lawyers waged paved the way for millions of women in the future to choose.
More generally, the issues alligned with human sexuality can never be “black & white”… It may be true that a man may have more ‘options’ to get out of a sticky situation than a woman based merely on physical strength, but that is a generalisation… Accountability goes both ways… A small, weak man in prison should probably consider leaving the soap on the shower floor if he drops it.
Trouble the Pirate stated
Just because a law is made against a particular action, doesn’t make it imediately perfect. Laws have to be open to revision and ‘fine-tuning’ and even when they have apparantly covered all the bases, some other obscure example will come out of left-field.
If the law in MD and NC prevents a woman from even pursuing legal action because her complaint is not valid under the current law, then there is no loophole for pointing out that inadequacy and hence revising the law to fix the problem… If she has given ‘initial consent’ and that is enough for the court to throw out the case without considering the particulars of the individual case, then that is a throwback to the days of frontier justice… Lynchings and all…
I’m sure there is a way for a good lawyer to approach the court with other charges which could get the wheels of change moving, if not, there are other ways for a group of like-minded individuals to influence your justice system… If not, there’s always civil-court… Might as well get paid for it…
Christine the Lioness pontificated
Well, yeah, exactly. The law makes it impossible for her to claim it was rape at all if she initially consented, so he cannot be charged with that crime, or tried for it. I’m guessing the loophole would be that she could charge him with battery or sexual assault, but not rape per se (even though that’s really what it is).
If that case went to court, I’m also guessing that a jury/judge would sentence him to the max for whatever lesser crime he was being brought up on, which may equate to a sentence equal to a rape charge, but then again, maybe not. My complaint was more in the general direction that this law tries to make something black and white that truly isn’t… and especially with sexual relations, every case is different so setting a law that applies to every one of them doesn’t make sense. But you obviously get the point, Trouble, so I know I’m preaching to the choir.
tuxfather the Virgin quibbed this
I do not see really the point. Of course this is rape. You can not base this discussion on law because of the simple fact that laws are made by human beings. If the guy(s) who made the law had a sister who had a similar experience, believe me the law would have been different.
It’s about understanding, being capable of taking pleasure by giving some…
Well that is not the case for some “human” beings. So it’s one’s responsibility to take good care of him(her)self by choosing a nice partner.
Well, anyway there’s of course a lot to say and I find this discussion useful too. But the law is ,most of the time, a broken machine.
take care!!!
Christine the Lioness remarked
That is my point… not that all laws are broken, but in some cases, you are doing more harm by making a law than accepting that you can’t make a law which would force you to look at each case on an individual basis.
) 
Christine the Lioness commented
Interesting use of emoticons…
Da Lesbian the Virgin spake, and sayeth
rape doesnt just happen with a guy rapin the girl! but also girls n rape guys n girls can rape other girls shyt guys can rape other guys 2! but it happens wen someone is forcing the other person that doesnt want to have sex or orel sex with the other person! 
wen YOU say NO and that person doesnt listen to you its rape! if you cant stop it report the person. its still rape even if you ask PLZ USE A CONDOM! because you dnt want to have a chile form rape or get any type of STD’s! its rape!!! 
i was raped 3 times but i was young and didnt noe wat to do or turn to! but thats were i fucked up! if you have been raped don’t make the same mistake as i did! open that mouth and shout it out!!!!!
Chaim the Groupie up'n wrote this
*sigh* What can’t people type sentences in intelligible language anymore? How can one expect anyone to read that and understand any of it the first time?
ProphetJoe the Irreverent got all philosophical
“*sigh* What can’t people type sentences in intelligible language anymore?”
Chaim, did you mean “Why can’t people…” or “What? Can’t people…”?
The answer why is obvious. Because it takes a tiny bit of dedication, an elementary school level of education and a smidgeon of intelligence. That’s why they can’t do it!
Bsidez, every1 noes lezbos kan’t rite…
Chaim the Groupie said this
Yeah, yeah… I noticed that I typed “What” instead of “Why” shortly after I hit submitted the comment. I was going to post again to correct it, but I didn’t want to draw attention to the mistake 
(At least I didn’t say “wut” or “y”…)
Christine the Lioness said this
Don’t worry, Chaim. We’ll draw attention to your mistakes for you…
Trouble the Pirate commented
Guys, that’s a hell of a way to welcome lesbian virgins to this site… You should be ashamed of yourselves… They only want what we want…
Christopher will probably agree that it’s not how you spell it, it’s what you say that counts… Our new lesbian may be young [perhaps too young to be reading the content of this site] but she makes the point that rape is not relegated to men forcing women into sexual acts, the act of rape now leaps the gender boarders and is a ‘person on person’ transgression.the situation. At the very least she is by admission, experienced with the topic more so than we probably are, and has chosen to bypass the victim mentality in favour of a take charge attitude. I must commend this.
That being said honey, text’ng info ’bout the latest sale at the GAP to your friends, and attempting to put forth a valid and valuable contribution in an intelligent discussion forum [and that may be a stretch here] are two different situations, which will require differing levels of clarity.
…and one last thing… Stop defining yourself only by your sexual preference… You are a person who is made up of many characteristics and all their associated nuances… Don’t abridge yourself to just “da lesbian”, though a most admirable quality, that is not the whole sum of your parts…
Trouble the Pirate spake, and sayeth
…and you PJ, off all people… Who has on occasion managed to completely insult the modesty of two or three women simultaneously using only a string of emoticons…
Trouble the Pirate stated
…I meant “of” but I still had honey on my fingers…
Christine the Lioness quibbed this
LOL, Trouble.
ProphetJoe the Irreverent quibbed this
Thank you… thank you very much… (done with my usual Elvis sneer)
Now, where’s that honey…
<====8
ProphetJoe the Irreverent commented
^^^^
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