Christine the Lioness (3122)
Christopher the Pyro (1986)
ProphetJoe the Irreverent (1253)
Trouble the Pirate (601)
Keith the Director (573)
Mara the Peacemaker (533)
eric the Lil' Devil (351)
AJ the Zen Master (305)
Ben the Kingpin (213)
Haas the Addict (187)
Christine 2 the Mercenary (131) Lei the Mercenary (124) Katie the Mercenary (115)
John1040 the Soldier (59) Christine the Lioness mentioned
I never suggested that man-made diamonds weren’t made of the same exact material as organic diamonds. They obviously are. But to say they are 100% the same, isn’t true. One is made in a lab and one is made by nature. That is a difference. Now whether it’s a difference that is obvious to the person wearing the diamond, probably not. But just because you can’t taste the difference between Heinz Ketchup and Hunt’s Ketchup, doesn’t mean they are exactly the same. They are still different ketchups.
My point– aside from what I just explained which seems sort of obvious– is that since ketchup isn’t given with the intention of showing someone how much you love them, it doesn’t really matter. My feeling has always been that there is something inherently beautiful about how nature creates a diamond– over thousands of years in perfect conditions– that makes diamonds special and romantic. Take that away, and you have exactly what Christopher described. Something made in a lab in New Jersey that isn’t unique from anyone else’s anymore.
Christopher the Pyro got all philosophical
Not exactly.
If I grow a tomatoes on my farm and you grow tomatoes in your greenhouse, they are the same. They arrived at the same ending just went about it in differnet ways.
Are you suggesting that a baby made form natural sex is different from a baby made from artificial insemination? The process is different, the result the same.
There is a difference between Heinze and Hunts, their final results are uniquely different, they use different ingredients.
Your also 100% wrong a diamond is not beautiful at all when it comes out of the ground, a natural uncut diamond is rather ugly and looks nothing like the pieces that have been crafted in a store. Would you be happy if someone gave you an uncut unpolished diamond.. (I mean if you really want natural)?
Christine the Lioness said this
Your analogy of how tomatoes are grown on a farm or in a greenhouse would be the same as comparing a diamond from a mine in Africa vs. one in Columbia. You probably meant to compare it to a tomato grown on a farm vs. one “created” by scientists in a lab. That is a better analogy.
And I’m not saying that the diamond is beautiful when it comes out of the ground. Did you even read what I wrote??? You’re telling me I’m wrong about something I never said.
I understand this is hard for Christopher, who is not inherently sentimental about anything, to understand. But look at it this way. If your child made you a birthday card at school and wrote happy birthday, it would be something I would be more likely to cherish and keep than one he bought from the store that said happy birthday. They are both birthday cards. They both are from your child. But the circumstances of the first card (the fact he made it himself, etc) set it apart from the store-bought one.
In terms of diamonds. The whole idea of giving someone a diamond is that the notion itself is romantic. Why? Why is that more romantic than giving someone a leaf on a string? It’s not just because its valuable as you have already pointed out diamonds have no real value in resale. The romance factor comes from the notion that it takes hundreds of years for the earth (something more grandiose than people who can sit around in a lab) to create a diamond. The time it takes represents how deep one’s love is for the other person. The fact that each diamond is unique symbolizes that out of everyone they could have fallen in love with, they fell for you– one and only you. The idea of mass producing diamonds in a lab, made by people, so that they can be bought more cheaply, loses the qualities that make diamonds special to begin with.
But I think you have to have some notion of what is romantic to understand this concept. And Christopher, as much as I love the boy, is not a romantic guy. I realize he sees this as purely a mathematical comparison ending up in the realization that he can buy a much bigger, man-made diamond with less flaws for considerably less than he can buy a natural, perhaps flawed, smaller, real diamond.
For me, the importance isn’t on how big the diamond is, or how flawless. It’s more about what that diamond represents. I’d much rather have a real, natural diamond that’s small than a big, man-made one. There is something inherently awesome about things that nature creates over time… something that would have been in the world whether mankind ever discovered it or not.
So if you’re going to go with Christopher’s thinking on this… why buy a diamond at all? Spend a couple grand on something else that has a better resale value and more of a function in daily life. But again, I think you’d be missing the whole point.
Christopher the Pyro hunt n' pecked this
It’s not more inherently romantic than giving someone a leaf, flower, string.. you think it is because De Beer’s tells you so.. but it’s not. I can understand your confusion that is what marketing is meant to do, muddy the waters until we believe completly asnine things (that giving a rock is romantic) if I went out dug a rock out of the ground took it home cleaned it off, and polished it myself would it be as romantic as a diamond I walked into the store and bought.. yes infact it would be much more romantic but your mind tells you something different because of the influcences of marketing. I am not unromantic, I’m just not a slave to marketing, diamonds would be $1 a pop if it wasn’t for de beer’s and yet somehow I’m the unromantic one?
Maybe women can’t appreciate real romance anymore when someone actually puts effort in.. because buying jewelry is a mindless act that has been decided for you long before you ever get to the store.
I think a diamond is a diamond, it’s a rock period… also Christine diamonds do not require time to be created, there are conditions in nature that can create diamonds as quickly as they are created in the lab.. the whole time thing.. just another De Beers marketing ploy.. works wonder eh?
Christine the Lioness remarked
If you say so…
Tim the Virgin commented
Christopher, excellent point. You made an argument that was well founded in logic and reason, and backed up by supporting anecdote, and made your case well.
Christine, your rebuttal to Christopher’s excellent point was “if you say so…’
Christopher wins. Christine loses.
Chris: 1 Chris: 0
Christopher the Pyro mentioned
Love it.. love it! Our readers are getting smarter everyday!
Christine the Lioness asserted
Hehe.
Tim, you need to understand that I did make a point about how diamonds are supposed to symbolize romance, and mass producing them in a lab doesn’t make me feel romantic about them. That was a point. A point that obviously you, nor Christopher understands. So basically, it’s just my point of view– which I am certainly entitled to.
I explained it once pretty succinctly. Christopher ignored it and avoided any notion of romance attached to giving someone a diamond so that he could blame it on marketing which I guess I’m supposed to deny how I feel about diamonds because it was created long ago by marketing (marketing is also responsible for what men find as sexy in women btw– but Christopher would be the last one to reject that– that’s perfectly okay because he benefits from it, but as soon as he doesn’t benefit from marketing ie– having to buy a real diamond, marketing is the culprit).
I know Christopher well enough for this debate to go on forever because he’ll keep going and going until I agree. So now, in the effort of saving time, I just agree and avoid the painful process early on.
The truth is, a mass-produced, lab-made diamond doesn’t appeal to me personally. For me, an organic diamond has a certain meaning. Now you can all sit there and criticize me for feeling that way, or blame it on marketing, or God, or paganists, or whatever. But it’s how I feel about it. And if you don’t think that’s valid, then that’s your problem, not mine.
Christopher the Pyro scribbled
They are mass produced out of the ground tho.. and stored in the MILLIONS in warehouses… is that romantic? It’s pretty easy to cope out and say.. It’s my opinion and it’s not based on anything but it’s valid because it’s my opinion.. that makes sense. We would hate to actually have reasons to believe something. As for why guys find certain girls attractive and others not.. yet marketing plays a role in it, however men are also naturally draw to certain things.. Each guy is different.
Christine the Lioness said this
See what I mean, Tim? Touche.
Christine the Lioness up'n wrote this
Honestly, it sounds like this is about saving a buck by getting a lab-made diamond instead of a real one. If that’s where you’re coming from, maybe she doesn’t quite mean as much to you as she should.
Christopher the Pyro pontificated
or maybe she isn’t as smart as you thought…
Dave the Virgin remarked
How can anyone still consider diamonds romantic when you have to consider all the horrible horrible things that are now associated with them. My girl knows right from wrong and told me that I’m not allowed to get her a diamond.
ProphetJoe the Irreverent said this
What horrible things are you referring to, Dave?
ProphetJoe the Irreverent said this
By the way, Christine, did you know that Hunts, Heinz and Del Monte were not the same “product” until recently?
Heinz had the name Ketchup, while Del Monte marketed Catsup. Hunts apparently could not make up their mind — they called it Catsup east of the Mississippi River and Ketchup west of the Mississippi. That was until the 1980’s when the government added ketchup as a vegetable on the school lunch program — Del Monte and Hunts soon changed their names as Catsup was not on the approved list.
I, myself, was taught to spell the word “Catchup” in grade school — a term which was meant as a compromise between ketchup and catsup. Alas, like so many other things taught to me in grade school — this is no longer used either.
ProphetJoe the Irreverent scribbled
OK, now back to diamonds. Both Christopher and Christine seem to be missing the point here. Diamonds are not precious because they are organic (which isn’t, IMHO, the right term, but it’s what you’ve been using, so I’ll stick with it).
They are precious because they are marketed as rare and that’s why De Beers works so hard to keep millions of dollars worth of the stones off the market! They are “romantic” because they symbolize the rarity and beauty of “your love”.
Man-made diamonds will decrease the value of the diamonds, but not the rarity of the natural stones. I suspect De Beers will come up with a way to classify or certify natural stones as opposed to lab-grown synthetic stones. That way they can guarantee the “rarity” of the product and continue to maximize their marginal profits.
Ironically, natural Cubic Zirconia is far rarer that natural diamonds, yet it is the synthetic CZ that is more often valued by the consuming public…
ProphetJoe the Irreverent stated
My wife likes CZ because they are pretty and cheaper than diamonds.
I like CZ because they make damned fine handguns and (I’m told) superior rifles. http://www.cz-usa.com/products_handguns.php
Christopher the Pyro spake, and sayeth
For the record. I am committed to only buying man made diamonds & CZ why? It’s pretty simple if I don’t.. I’m just flat out stupid. It’s really not that hard of a choice.
Trouble the Pirate penned this
I don’t wear jewelry that is ‘valuable’ in any commercial sense, unless one would consider a few ounces of Surgical-grade Stainless-steel ‘valuable’…
I have three reasons:
1) Unlike PJ, I AM aware of the horrific atrocities connected to ‘extraction’ and marketing of naturally formed diamonds, and other ‘precious’ metals & stones.
2) My jewelry actually goes through a piece of my skin, and hence is harder to lose…
3) I am poor [at least by my country’s standard…]
In 2006 - Only 9 people were ‘officially’ killed whilst mining gold and diamonds… Thank goodness human life has no market value. Not many in the US are even aware of mining fatalities unless they make the news, and those reported instances tend to be confined to the Coal mining industry as a prerequisite… since it is ‘dirty’ fuel…
The Governments MSHA - Mine Safety & Health Administration DOES provide many links to data compiled on fatalities tied to the ‘precious metal & stone’ extraction industry in the last 20 years… however, they don’t actually work.
Personally, the diamond extraction industry tends to only kill and injure people who work in it, hence I’m really not that against it… i.e. them knowing the inherent risks and all… Unless you DO ACTUALLY worry about the SA conflict diamond crap… But what blushing fiancé gives two shits about a few thousand dead Africans somewheres in South America…
I am more against the gold industry, because it decimates our environment, natural resources, wildlife …and also kills/injures a whole bunch of people… mostly innocent bystanders…
Heap leaching to extract precious metals at a 60-70% efficiency, is the most profitable method, and wreaks unknown damage on OUR groundwater, and from a personal standpoint, ‘incidents’ at gold mines in Guyana [where my family hails from] where ‘holding pools’ which occasionally leak the byproducts of Cyanidation […which just happens to be Cyanide] into river and lake systems, have killed fish and birds numbering in the tens of millions… and also killed or inured thousands of people who use those systems… Just in the last 20 years… And those mines are still operating…
However… These are just small prices to pay for shiny rocks, so who am I to argue… My Girlfriend wantie diamond, me buyie diamond… the consequences of bucking this system are far greater… No pussy…
Mara the Peacemaker mentioned
I personally prefer colored stones (garnets and sapphires in particular) but I do have a diamond engagement ring. Wearing it makes me slightly nervous at times as it is the most expensive piece of jewelry that I own, is grossly expensive compared to my other jewelry (like those $30 earrings I bought at Macy’s) and is relatively insubstantial (I can lose my diamond ring much more easily than I can lose my car, for example).
Honestly, if I could live my life over again, I would have told my fiance to get me a lab-created diamond instead of a real one. It would be just as beautiful, be as significant (the ring, a gift he took the time to thoughtfully pick out for me, that have gave me when he proposed) and I wouldn’t constantly freak out about losing it. Diamonds are certainly lovely but I think all of the hoopla surrounding them (and some women’s expectation for a man to spend to spend thousands of dollars on a ring) is a little nuts.
Christine the Lioness said this
I think you’d be just as freaked out about losing a lab-made diamond as you are a real one. The ramification of losing the ring your finance proposed with wouldn’t change much– you’d still have to replace it with a ring that he didn’t propose with.
Mara the Peacemaker quibbed this
Christine, that’s probably true. Well, I don’t know if I’d be FREAKED out, but I’d certainly be upset if something happened to my engagement ring regardless of it being a naturally created diamond or not. Perhaps more so because it is quite expensive compared to a lab-created one. Or not. Maybe you’re right. But I don’t buy myself extravagant items so on the rare occasions I have something expensive, it just makes me a little nervous. Having a ring on my finger worth several thousands of dollars freaks me out a bit particularly since I am not accustomed to wearing expensive jewelry.
But it wasn’t important to me to have a diamond engagement ring. Chris is a bit traditional…well, more than a bit so it was more important to HIM. I’m not complaining. In all likelihood, my wedding and engagement rings will be the most extravagant pieces of jewelry I will ever own. But it does freak me out a bit.
ProphetJoe the Irreverent added
This exchange (above) qualifies as Reason #829 why women should come with Users Manual… 
Mara the Peacemaker thought this
Lol, PJ
Christine the Lioness got all philosophical
Having a user’s manual would take all the fun out of trying to figure us out… and quite frankly, if that were the case, what would you guys have to talk about when you’re sitting around playing poker? We give you a reason to ‘commisserate,’ and we all know how important male bonding is… you should be thanking us.
Mara the Peacemaker scribbled
Anyone have exciting plans for New Year’s?
ProphetJoe the Irreverent chimed in with
I have to move from my temporary office on Dec 31st back to the College Offices because remodeling is *finally* done (yeah!).
On New Year’s Eve, we’ll play Bunco with 4-5 other couples (and have about 12 of “our” kids running around) and consume copious amounts of rum-based nectar.
Then around 6:30 (yes, a.m.) on New Year’s Day, I plan to drive about an hour away to shop for guns at the annual gun auction I attend, followed by the 4 o’clock kick-off of the Rose Bowl when we’ll see just how good those pesky Trojans are…
So, no, nothing exciting, unless my wife *does* consume copious amounts of rum
ProphetJoe the Irreverent commented
…and if she does drink copious amounts of rum, I may just have to skip the gun auction because I will be AFO! 
ProphetJoe the Irreverent mentioned
“Having a user’s manual would take all the fun out of trying to figure us out…”
and lead to men living as long as women…
Trouble the Pirate stated
Off topic [sorta]… I’ll most likely be getting into a whole heap more trouble than I would have… Backstory: went out last night with a few friends, and in the midst of seasons greetings, an innocently platonic hug with one of my good friend’s girlfriend… she accidentally placed a perfect lip print on my [white] sleeve [she was sitting on a barstool…]
Many jokes were made by all who know the suspicious nature of my Latina girlfriend, and how it would probably be “my last night on earth so live it up”, “did I hide all the kitchen knives before I came out?” etc…etc…
However, I also know my girl well, and knew there was going to be a shitstorm no matter what I did… so I did nothing about it [I mean, I didn’t have a Tide-stick with me…]
Well, to cut what will be a long story short, I was confronted this morning with a scowling harpie, white-shirt-in-hand, demanding the name of the *bleepin’ beep that I obviously *bleeped last night…
I gave a quick [and truthful] explanation, which was immediately dismissed as blatant lie…
As a direct result, I have been told that I am now single…
Harsh news for a man named Trouble merely days before NYE… [note sarcasm]
Funny how such a platitudinous event could cause me so much aggravation. I am only aggravated that now I have to go out and do the deed that I am being blamed for, otherwise I will be accepting punishment for that-which-I-haven’t-done, and up with that I will not put…
ProphetJoe the Irreverent up'n wrote this
So, no, Mara, TtP and I have been very boring lately… how about you and Christine?
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