Christine the Lioness (3118)
Christopher the Pyro (1985)
ProphetJoe the Irreverent (1216)
Trouble the Pirate (592)
Keith the Director (573)
Mara the Peacemaker (527)
eric the Lil' Devil (351)
AJ the Zen Master (305)
Ben the Kingpin (213)
Haas the Addict (187)
Christine 2 the Mercenary (131) Lei the Mercenary (124) Katie the Mercenary (115)
Ben2 the Soldier (56)
Willy the Virgin got all philosophical
It’s great to see real rational dialog about this subject. Thanks for actually thinking about this instead of reacting emotionally.
After reading your thoughtful piece some might ask, “well, who IS committing all these sex crimes if the recidivism rate is so low”.
The answer 90% of the time is not the registered sex offender but someone the child knows well. A family member, a close friend, teachers, coaches, priests. Lets put our energys toward constructive educational efforts to educate the public about the FACTS about sex offenders!
Willy
ProphetJoe the Irreverent pontificated
Christine, it’s late, so I’m not going to respond to this post right now because of its deep moral and ethical implications, but I just had to comment about the last reader — how ironic is it that the guy’s name is Willy (the Virgin) — it just made me laugh — that is all. Carry on.
Christine the Lioness scribbled
Willy brings up an interesting point about the fact that most sex offenders are committing crimes against children they are related to. From what I’ve read about this, it seems that fact is true, and my gut feeling on this is that it’s because they have easy access to the victims. It’s easier to skim off the till in the store where you work as a cashier, right? But just because they have access to those specific family members doesn’t mean that they don’t have this drive to commit pedophiliac acts with children regardless. If given easy access again, would recidivism increase? And does that access include living near a park or school?
On top of that, access to adult victims is a whole other story.
Additionally, when we refer to first time offenders in statistics, that’s not really an accurate statement much of the time. By the time a sex offender is caught and prosecuted, they could very well have victimized multiple people in varying degrees. Because recidivism refers only to crimes committed after being released from incarceration and doesn’t take into account the period of time before arrest or the number of victims during that time (or even the number of times a single victim was victimized), it’s difficult to get an accurate picture from simple recidivism rates.
BTW, PJ… I appreciate your taking my post so seriously that you want to approach it with a well-rested mind. If only Christopher would take me this seriously… 
ProphetJoe the Irreverent mentioned
In the Land of Lincoln, we categorize sex offenders based on the crimes they commit. While a 19 guy who had sex with his 16 year old girlfriend *is* still considered a sex offender (and is listed on the registry), there are also mitigating factors which elevate the reporting — some say things like: “victim under the age of 13″, or “family member” or “victim in custodial care”.
We also have higher threats which are labels are “sexual predators”. Frankly, I don’t know which is worse (or if you can make a case for that statement) — being molested by your Uncle Bob or being molested in the park while helping that “nice man” look for his puppy.
As a father of 3 pre-teens, there is a side of me that strongly believes in a “1 strike and you’re out” policy. Molesting a young child is *NOT* just an error in judgment — it’s so obviously out of the norm of human behavior that it must be treated differently.
I think the courts have traditionally had a difficult time distinguishing the abuse of an immature child versus the consenting act of a minor. Granted, a 14-17 y.o. girl probably doesn’t understand the true ramifications of having intercourse with an older male, but (in my mind) it’s not the same as using your position as a priest, teacher or trusted family member to molest the child, and it’s certainly not the same as a predatory who snatches a child from school or a dept store, etc.
I might be “reasonable” and give the 18 y.o. boy with the raging hormones, who did it with the sophomore cheerleader behind the football field, a break and not require him to register his whereabouts for eternity. I might even let him live next to the school. I don’t, however, think Mary Kay Letourneau can be excused because she was “in love”. No, she was a teacher in a fiduciary role with a child — period! If she was so damned certain he was her soul mate, she should have waited 5 years until he was 18.
Christopher the Pyro hunt n' pecked this
I also have another major issue with these laws. 50% of sex offenders commit crimes against family memebers or people they know. 3% of caught offenders will recommit a crime. The way I see this is that… out of 100 sex offenders.
50% did it with family member, they are unlikely to recommit the crime because they were likley only doing it because it was so easy for them to do it in the first place. So we are left with 50% of the people, the ones who are willing to go out to a park and snatch someone. so out of those 100 offenders, only 3 are going to recommit the crimes they are likely the ones that are willing to do some work to feed their addiction, and I really don’t think these laws deter them on any level. I agree that giving a drunk a job in a bar is a little stupid, however do any of us really believe that person isn’t going to drink? It just seems to me these laws affect far more people who won’t ever commit another crime as opposed to the small minority that will.
Mara the Peacemaker scribbled
I have a lot of thoughts on this…
“So the question becomes… if the laws are less restrictive, does that actually aid authorities in keeping accurate tracking records about where these people are?”
The interesting thing about the sex offender registry (at least in California) is that because we require registration for so many sexual offenses, we actually do not have the manpower to keep track of these people. I did a study a couple of years back and was aghast at the number of people who are “registered” but haven’t had updated information in YEARS. Basically, the law enforcement authorities don’t know where a lot of these people are.
I don’t know if this answers your question, but I think perhaps limiting what sexual offenses require registration might aid law enforcement authorities in keeping track of sex offenders. For example, I think it’s ludicrous that we require individuals in certain statutory rape cases to register (this is the 18 year-old high school student had sex with his 15-year old girlfriend — for all intents and purposes, they are both kids and aren’t the scenarios that were originally contemplated by statutory rape laws). That isn’t the person I consider a threat to my child.
I also think that some of the registration laws or the way in which they are applied is fucked up. California has a law that allows registration on a case-by-case basis, but the problem is that judges are overzealous…our society, in general, is overzealous when it comes to the registration of sex offenders. So overzealous are the judges that if a prosecutor merely alleges registration, the judge typically orders it. The facts of the case do not matter (to the judge). And in many states (including California), sex offender registration laws have gone beyond what we typically think warrants registration and entered into a dangerous realm where we stigmatize conduct that is perhaps not “normal” in the everyday sense, but is not harmful. For example, there was a case in California where a person broke into someone’s house and stole the victim’s panties. This person is a registered sex offender because the motivating factor for the crime was sexual gratification. While that may be true, stealing someone’s underpants does not constitute a sexual offense in the first place. So this is someone who is a registered sex offender, but was not actually convicted of a statutorily defined offense.
Boston Legal had an episode about this last week and one of the attorneys arguing on behalf of a registered sex offender asked that if we, as a society, make it more difficult for people to integrate into society after they have served their time, etc, that is, we won’t let them live anywhere, we don’t let them work, etc, then what are they to do and where are they to go? How much of this attitude towards individuals with previous convictions (not just sex offenders) plays a role in recidivism? I think that is a question to seriously consider.
Willy the Virgin mentioned
There is so much misinformation about this subject. Can I suggest you go to my website and see if that helps?
http://sexoffendertoo.spaces.live.com/
Willy
Willy the Virgin remarked
Christopher,
Where did you get your figure of 50%. And I am not sure I understand the context of that figure. None of the figures out there refer to 50% re-offence rates. It is more like 3.5 to 5%.
Mara,
You have very insightfully landed on a major weakness of the Sex Offender Registry. Too many low risk offenders on the list are making the job of enforcing the law difficult if not impossible. It must be remembered that the really horrible cases that you hear about on the news are not at all representative of the vast majority of the people on the registry. These cases are really rare and that is why they are newsworthy. The voters in California (70%) say they want these residency restrictions. I wonder how many of those 70% will still want them when they find out how much their taxes must be increased in order to pay for it.
I do however take issue with your understanding of the way in which someone finds themselves on the registry. Most of the time judges do not order the offender to register. It really is not up to the judge. In almost all states registry is required upon arrest and conviction of certain crimes, not by the risk to the community. What is lacking is some sort of system where each offender can be evaluated case-by-case. Those with violent crimes or those are repeat offenders, or crimes in which there is a victim should be handled differently then the less serious crimes. If we had a system where assignment to the registry is risk-based instead of crime based our children would be much safer, and justice would have a better chance of being carried out. Forget the hardships faced by sex offenders and their families. The really important question should be asked: “Are these laws doing what the supporters say they want them to do, protect children?” I think the answer is no.
ProphetJoe the Irreverent up'n wrote this
The crux of the problem is not necessarily identifying where a sex offender lives, it’s identifying what a sex offender is. Unfortunately, “sex offender” is a broad and overly-used term in today’s society. Trying to define a sex offender is somewhat akin to Justice Potter Stewart’s thoughts on obscenity — (paraphrased) ‘I may not be able to define it, but I know it when I see it.’
Willy (B. Goode), you say you are a registered sex offender and that (one of) your interests is “sex offender rights”. In order to intelligently discuss the topic in an honest and accurate manner, I would like to know some details about your circumstance.
1) tell us about your crime and how you became a registered sex offender.
2) what rights are you concerned about when you say “sex offender rights”?
3) you list “educator” as your profession. Please elaborate — do you mean you are (or were) literally a teacher in a school, or are you more generally using the term in the sense that you want to educate people about sex offenders?
4) your age, or a general range of ages — I find it difficult to believe you are actually 135 years old
The internet allows you to openly discuss your situation without having to divulge your true name, age and location. If you really want to honestly discuss the topic, be truthful about the details. Otherwise, you’ll just be reinforcing the stereotype of a criminal claiming victim status in order avoid taking responsibility for your acts.
Remember, reform begins with honest analysis of the situation and the facts.
ProphetJoe the Irreverent mentioned
And who is your friend, Liz Robertson? Her photos are a little slutty for an 18 y.o. on the internet… well, probably not with her age group… *sigh*
Mara the Peacemaker remarked
“Most of the time judges do not order the offender to register. It really is not up to the judge. In almost all states registry is required upon arrest and conviction of certain crimes, not by the risk to the community.”
If you reread my post, you will see that I was specifically talking about California which has a statute that leaves a judge discretion to order sex offender registration in certain instances. This is known as the “catchall provision” of California’s sex offender registration statute (and by the way, several states have these catchall sections). In those cases, sex offender registration isn’t mandated because in those instances, the individual has not actually been convicted of a sexual offense at all (for which registration would be required). However, the judge may still order it provided that the prosecution alleges it and in many cases, ALL it takes is the prosecution’s allegations. This is unlike California’s 3 Strikes law where the judge’s decision is defined by the law and his/her hands are basically tied. There is room for some subjective case-by-case analysis here– it just doesn’t happen. There could be many reasons for that. Some judges, just like legislators, are elected and don’t want to be seen “soft” on sex offenders or even anything that might appear like sex offenders. There are many factors at play here obviously.
“Are these laws doing what the supporters say they want them to do, protect children?” I think the answer is no.”
I think to some extent you are right. But again, we are an overzealous society when it comes to sex offenders and sex offender registration and I think one of the reasons why there is very little constructive reform are the few televised cases that were solved because the person was a registered sex offender (with updated information, of course). Those cases, I think, cause people to over emphasize the efficacy of these registration programs without really taking the time to research whether the registration is doing what it should.
Mara the Peacemaker scribbled
“Unfortunately, “sex offender” is a broad and overly-used term in today’s society.”
Absolutely, PJ. This is what I was alluding to in my earlier post. There seems to be a trend of states using sex offender registration as a way of normalizing certain sexual behavior (and the converse for “other” sexual behavior). And I think to some extent, when we hear the term “sex offender,” a particular image is brought to mind that is not necessarily representative of the person in question.
Christine the Lioness said this
Willy… to answer your question, Christopher was referring to a statistic in the study I cited.
“Other BJS surveys have shown that 70 percent of all men in prison for a sex crime were men whose victim was a child. In almost half of the child-victim cases, the child was the prisoner’s own son or daughter or other relative.”
Christopher the Pyro got all philosophical
Willy sorry I was not clear.
You are 100% right on re-offence rates. It is 3.5 to 5%.
I was saying that 50% of offences in the first place are against family members and we can pretty much rule those people out from recommitting.
I was also saying that the other 50% is against non-family members so those people are willing to work to commit their crime, so I doubt restrictions really bother them much.
I’m only talking about “real” offenses as two kids hooking up is rather mudane. (I would be an offender as would pretty much everybody I know (besides Christine).
Christine the Lioness uttered
“But again, we are an overzealous society when it comes to sex offenders and sex offender registration and I think one of the reasons why there is very little constructive reform are the few televised cases that were solved because the person was a registered sex offender (with updated information, of course). Those cases, I think, cause people to over emphasize the efficacy of these registration programs without really taking the time to research whether the registration is doing what it should.”
You make a good point, Mara. I agree that we as a society are overzealous, but it also comes from the fact that most high profile sexual predator cases where the victim have been children turn out (when the offender is caught) to be committed by repeat offenders (like Polly Klaas and Jessica– the inspiration for Jessica’s law).
So we pretty much all agree that the sexual registry list needs to be reformed so that we focus only on people who are truly threats and not th 18 y.o. boy who slept with his 16 y.o. gf.
But Mara’s point that the judges don’t take the time to really examine these cases case by case– or even worse– they intentionally don’t bother because they politically don’t want to be seen as being soft on sex crimes, OR they even figure that they’d rather err on the side of caution than risk that someone they didn’t put on the registry winds up committing a similar crime suddenly putting the judge in the hot seat, is also a problem. With those circumstances, what’s the point of even having a system that examines each case individually?
I disagree with Christopher to some extent. His point was that if 50% were molesting children that lived in their home or were a relative, and that situation no longer exists once the convicted is released, they will not suddenly start snatching kids from parks. In short, he’s suggesting that these crimes are crimes of opportunity so to speak. While having to put in too much effort to find a victim or simply weighing the risk of getting caught again and therefore deciding not to commit a crime doesn’t change the fact that these people– people who are attracted to children– will remain attracted to children throughout their lives. Should the opportunity inadvertently present itself in the future (say in a public restroom the sex offender happens to see a child come in by himself and they’re alone), he could do it again. The problem there is that we don’t know if he will or won’t, so how do we gauge what the risk is?
Christopher has also argued that in many countries, and in our own history, it’s considered legal and natural to have sex with people much younger than 18. And our view that 18 is suddenly a magic age of consent (some states allow consent with other minors at age 14 even), it’s somewhat arbitrary. So is a 30 y.o. man attracted to a 14 y.o. really that deviant?
I understand that point as well.
The age difference seems to be seen as an issue because an older person has the experience and very often, the mental capabilities to coerce and exploit someone much younger. In the Mary Kay Letourno case, once the boy turned 18, and she was released from prison, they actually got married. He didn’t feel he was coerced in any way. I don’t completely agree. If you start believing something at a young age when you can be easily manipulated, you may not ever question it later on and recognized that you were indeed manipulated.
Christine the Lioness commented
And Willy… I have to agree with PJ. I went to your site as well. I find it interesting how the entire site is dedicated to turning everyone’s focus on this “intrigue” of you being a registered sex offender who’s never molested a child, but yet you won’t give any details of your situation. What do you get from inviting people in, and then slamming the door in their face? Is it simply attention you’re after? I don’t see any real substance to your site and it really doesn’t offer anything of value. Hey, it’s your site to do what you want with, but I’m just curious as to what your intention is.
Ironically, your “friends” include 18 y.o. girls dressed provocatively. Again… what exactly is the message here?
I will say this about the slutty looking girl Liz, PJ. And I think many adult women will agree with me. 18 y.o. girls are still trying to understand their sexuality. At that age– and I know because I was one of them and it hasn’t changed– you realize you’re getting a lot of attention from guys so you must be hot. You also realize it can get you things that ugly girls don’t get. It’s intriguing so you want to explore that. You like being revered as attracted (who doesn’t?) but does that mean you fully understand everything that goes into being sexually active (disease risk, birth control, the way men manipulate women to get sex, relationship building, etc.)? I can tell you I didn’t. Men assume that someone like “Liz” is posing like that because she wants to get laid and hell, why shouldn’t they be the one to screw her then, right? But girls aren’t thinking like that. Yet the attention they get reinforces the behavior.
Although people will site that young girls want to just hook up like guys do now, I honestly disagree. The female brain hasn’t changed. Females are more hardwired to want to be in relationships and males are more hardwired to want to procreate with as many females as they can. Most young girls fantasize about meeting a sexy guy with all the admirable male attributes and falling in love with him, and him falling in love with her and they get married. I don’t think young girls are fantasizing about how many different guys they can fuck.
What happens is that a lot of girls want the attention from a certain guy or guys in general, and having sex gets them that attention, so attention for one night is better than no attention at all. But any girl who gets fucked by a guy who then skates off and won’t give her the time of day is going to feel used.
That’s my opinion.
Unfortunately, the prevalence of the internet has allowed current teens to post these pictures for the world whether or not they realize how that affects the way other people perceive them.
ProphetJoe the Irreverent remarked
What confounds the issue even more is that we (on this blog) are all pretty sexually perverted anyway, so we really don’t have a clue about “normal sexual behavior”. 
Speaking of perverts, where is that parrot-toting Pirate? I think he could dowse the fire with some petrol…
Btw, Trouble — I saw a episode of Modern Marvels last night about sugar and the part I actually watched was about the distilling of Rum (one of my favorites things) and the vast Caribbean history surrounding sugar, rum and rum-running/pirate business surrounding it. Fascinating in a history-geek sort of way.
Who knew it was all about sugar, matey?
[SQUAAAAWKK]
Christine the Lioness stated
I knew it. I learned that when I toured the Bacardi distillery in San Juan. Now THAT was fun… maybe not as fun as watching Modern Marvels… uh… actually, it was a lot more fun.
ProphetJoe the Irreverent said this
And I used to think molasses was just some old fashioned crap my grandma used!
ProphetJoe the Irreverent thought this
Note to the readers — did you notice Christine commented about the Rum, but did NOT attempt, in any way, to deny her perverted sexually orientation?
The silence speaks volumes!
Willy the Virgin scribbled
I just want to say I am really impressed with the mature and thoughful dicussion going on here. I am so used to hearing views that run along the “I think they should be hung in a public square” idea that I must say I think you guys at least are getting it!
To answer your questions:
No I am not 135 years old. I am not a professional educator. The reason I dont give more deatails about me and my crime is that I live with relatives and I dont want them to be colateral damage from my crime. For myself, I dont care, I can take care of myself but the idea that people might decide to circulate flyers or assemble outside my door, or that me or someone who cares about me might be physically harmed is a risk I am not willing to take. These are not abstract possiblities either. There ARE registered sex offenders who have been located on the internet and have been murdered. In fact all of the things I mentioned have happened to RSOs in this country.
And I do not attempt to play the victim either. I take full responsibility for my crime. It was my own fault and no one elses. If you would like to read about my story go to my website and read the oldest 2 or 3 blogs. I do talk in quite a bit of detail about what my situation. Of course I had to leave out a number of details that would allow others to identify me.
http://sexoffendertoo.spaces.live.com/
When I first started the blog, I had intended to make it very personal and write many more original pieces. As time went on I got kinda lazy and began linking to current news stories mostly. I do intend to get back to writing again. Now that its turning cold in my part of the world I think I will have more time inside to make the website more personal.
Christine: Would you post the origin of the “BJS” study you talk about. I would be interested in reading it.
Once again thanks for all of your intelligent discourse on this controversial subject. Thats really all that most of us (RSOs) want. Speaking for myself, I am not asking for pity or sympathy. But it would be nice to know that I might have inspired some people to react more from their minds and less from anger. I am encouraged. I see the tide begining to turn in some respects.
Willy
(not my real name of course)
Willy the Virgin added
After reading PJs comment about Liz being on my friends list, I decided to remove it. I dont know anything about her. He makes a great point about it, and I guess it does kinda give folks the wrong idea.
ProphetJoe the Irreverent scribbled
Willy said “Once again thanks for all of your intelligent discourse on this controversial subject. Thats really all that most of us (RSOs) want. Speaking for myself, I am not asking for pity or sympathy. But it would be nice to know that I might have inspired some people to react more from their minds and less from anger. I am encouraged. I see the tide begining to turn in some respects.”
I think most of the readers here are intelligent, thoughtful, reasonably well- educated, well-meaning, incredibly sensitive and sexual advanced people (well, maybe I’m just speaking for myself 
).
I should add that, while I am able to look at a situation clinically (or perhaps, dispassionately) and say “that person is sick and we should help him/her” or “that law may be too restrictive”, I would have few reservations about the appropriateness of putting two rounds of full metal jacket through that same person’s skull if I (literally) found him/her molesting MY child.
ProphetJoe the Irreverent up'n wrote this
… and I am NOT advocating violence, but advocating that we protect children.
Willy the Virgin mentioned
I agree with you PJ lets find ways to really protect children, instead of the “feel-good” laws that do nothing to protect children and may even be making things worse for them!
Christine the Lioness thought this
Willy… there’s a link to that study in my original post.
Trouble the Pirate said this
I’m here… Been ‘listening’ to the debate. I can’t join in though, because I would be unable to argue in an unbiased capacity… You see, I too am a sex offender…
I offend pretty much everyone I have sex with…
ProphetJoe the Irreverent spake, and sayeth
[rim shot]
ProphetJoe the Irreverent penned this
SQUAWWWWWKKK!
ProphetJoe the Irreverent thought this
OK, I know this is a serious subject, but getting back to the rum for a minute. I’ve long enjoyed the typical well brand rums — Bicardi, Capt Morgan, etc. But can anyone recommend a really good dark sipping rum? I thought there might be a Pirate in these waters with experience in such matters, or even a Hollywood type who’s decadent lifestyle included vast experience with the sugary goodness of the Caribbean.
Trouble the Pirate up'n wrote this
Even though this statement will most likely be construed as “American-bashing”, it is not meant to be directed solely at ‘youse guys’… We share many of your problems here, and also compound them with a whole other set of our own that you probably wouldn’t understand or be interested in anyway… But disclaimer aside…
Reform is a word that gets thrown around like plastic beads at Mardi Gras… It’s leveled at every societal problem you face … What is it supposed to be, some ’special fixing process’? …it’s just a disasscociative way of saying that “the shit we been tryin’, just ain’t working… We gotta go try somethin’ else”…
I would say that you don’t need sex-offender law reform… You need law reform in general… your legal system is atrocious… And every effort to fix it has ended up convoluting it even more… How can any society survive in a legal system that the average constituent doesn’t even begin to understand… It smacks of the middle ages, where if someone was found ‘not breaking a law’, one was efficiently made up on the spot that they could be convicted of breaking… Lawyers are the shamen that we throw our gold coins at to wave their chicken bones, and magically keep us out of prison…
Nature has 1 law… Don’t believe me? Go debate it with a Tiger shark… We are the ones who attempt to distort everything to squash it into our stupid little ideas of what is right & wrong, and then we wonder and debate why it isn’t working… We broke it down into 10, wrote them on stone frickin’ tablets, and that still wasn’t enough… So we made more, and more… until the very laws we create are creating the very loopholes that allow those same laws to be legally broken, thus negating the law in the first place…
Can’t live less than 2000 ft from a school or park… What, they got no legs now? How does a superficial ‘barrier’ of about 800 steps for the average adult do anything but placate an idiot… Go ask my ex-girlfriend how that restraining order worked out for her…
If you lack the effort, enthusiasm, or mental capacity to understand the problem… Just skip straight to the solution… This seems to be the accepted mantra in our government and our homes… You can’t fly the space shuttle if you can’t fold a paper airplane…
“We don’t pay you to think, we pay you to act”… This is how you see your legislators… You would sooner penalize them for ‘not voting on an issue’ than voting the ‘wrong’ way… No wait, you would sooner penalize them for getting a blowjob…
Your government is NOT there to serve you, cater to your best interests, or EVEN do an iota more than the absolute bare minimum of work required to secure their job… Just like you… Why would they be any different to you… Why would they be more altruistic? It’s a job… It pays for their bills… And for their lap-dances… When will people stop deluding themselves…
Making laws is useless if you can’t enforce them… Enforcing laws that never needed to be made in the first place is a pointless waste of resources. Making laws for the sake of ‘doing something’ just ends up making it more complicated… Making out with Halle Berry, mmmm… Er… My truck of thought ran off the road…
…if you really want to know why someone does a certain job… Stop paying them for it…
Throwing money at any problem may hide it… but it will not fix it. No one will fix it so you are safe and comfy, ‘cept your mommy… Cops are cops ’cause it = power, in what other job can you TAZE a 82 year-old bitch… Judges are judges because it = power… And what does absolute power do? Until the people making and enforcing the laws are doing it for the RIGHT reason, we’re all pretty much Fv({@?
Most Laws are on the books because they’ve always been there… Isn’t that a stupid reason… They should be like wardrobe… If you haven’t worn it in 2 years, you don’t need it, GET RID of it…
Trouble the Pirate remarked
Bacardi is disinfectant, and Capt. Morgan’s is disinfectant with some season-all added…
Pyrat cask 23 [Anguilla], Appleton dark [Jamaican], Gosling’s OLD or Black Seal [Bermudan], Ron Zacapa Centenario [23 yr-old] or Ron Botran [both Guatemalan], Diplomatico Riserva Exclusiva [Venezuela], Mount Gay 12 yr. [Barbados] or lastly, Tortuga 12 yr. [Cayman Islands - both last ones are amber…]
Christine the Lioness spake, and sayeth
While I don’t disagree that we could use a general overhaul in the legal system itself to get back to the fundamentals it was based on, your rhetoric, Trouble, while thoroughly intriguing, doesn’t make a single comment on how to deal with protecting society from sex offenders.
With or without laws or the legal system or attorneys, sex offenders exist and the government has a reasonable expectation to try to protect its citizens and maintain order. So with those two very clear notions, what should we (collectively) be doing?
Trouble the Pirate pontificated
I will take “rhetoric” in the positive sense…
The reasons I don’t “make a single comment on how to deal with protecting society from sex offenders.” are that I was not aware I was expected to… And, I don’t believe American society, and many other societys have the ability to protect its constituents from said offenders.
Given a bit of spare time, I could draw up a standard flowchart of processes, and then elaborate from it a computer program that could derive a ‘verdict’ and punishment for all crimes. One could plug in the known values as input, and without injecting emotion, empathy, prejudice, or any other mitigating emotion or factor, the algorithmic nature of the program would produce a linear, fair judgment. Of course that is absurd… Or is it?
All modern [democratic?] legal systems are built upon possibly the wobbliest foundation possible to create. It’s all based on human emotion and precedence. Without those two factors, there is nothing.
A crime is born out of something we fear or abhor… And the punishment for it is based on a precedence of dealing with something of its nature. Is this not a more reliable system than in biblical days when crimes were anything that offended gods, and punishments where limited only by their imaginations? It is still however, dependent on the very factors it was 2000+ years ago, except now it is not fear of the gods we created and later abandoned, it is fear of our neighbors… And the punishments are not the will of those ancient gods anymore, they are the will of our peers.
The Government, the legal system, and its proponents, should be the last line of protection from sexual predators/offenders…
Personal accountability should be the main line, followed closely by a more than cosmetic concern for the welfare of our fellow humans. Since it thoroughly goes against the human grain to possess either of these abilities en masse, I’m sorry to say that we will not ever find the font of perfection where dealing with crimes and punishments are concerned…
We cannot even decide if Smoking pot should be a crime or not, how are we supposed to fathom out issues that actually matter?
ProphetJoe the Irreverent quibbed this
Trouble said “The Government, the legal system, and its proponents, should be the last line of protection from sexual predators/offenders…
Personal accountability should be the main line, followed closely by a more than cosmetic concern for the welfare of our fellow humans. Since it thoroughly goes against the human grain to possess either of these abilities en masse, I’m sorry to say that we will not ever find the font of perfection where dealing with crimes and punishments are concerned…”
Damn — you’re cynical today, you ole’ salty dog! Honestly, given that sexual predators don’t have personal accountability in this situation (if they did, there’d be no crime, right?), and given that most molesters are family, friends, teachers, priests, or another trusted adult, how do you propose we protect kids — not let them out of our sights?
Trouble the Pirate got all philosophical
So… You think your governments’ 2 very clear notions are “to try to protect its citizens and maintain order.” ? Well, you may have one out of two right… You score 50% on your ‘conspiratorially dissentious liberal’ exam… You fail, come to my office after class for your spanking […yes we still employ corporal punishment in pirate-land…]
The government couldn’t protect us even if it actually gave a shit… When your system of protection’s main forte is attempting to track down the perpetrator AFTER the crime has been committed… Well, let’s just say I would rather figure out my own stupid system thank you very little…
Oh wait! That will protect the NEXT possible victim in the future… Well, that makes all the difference then.
Collectively WE ALL need to waketheFu(kup. Who are sex offenders? Who are sexual predators? We ALL are… And don’t say speak for yourself Trouble… We all have views or practices that someone will find offensive, and we all take advantage of others sexually in what could be construed as a predatory manner… It is all down to the situation and our own definitions of what is acceptable. Any woman who has used her punahnee to get a promotion, a diamond necklace or her man to take out the garbage is guilty of an offense… Any man who has ‘accidentally’ rubbed-up on a woman’s butt in the subway is guilty of an offense… Anyone who has taken advantage of the double-standard that exists in the whole sexual harassment debacle… It’s all offensive…
If you want to cut-in-line… What makes you special… If you can’t pay your credit-card, so you skim from the till… What makes you special… If you feel the urge to rape and beat a child to death… What makes YOU so special, that you feel you are obliged to do so?
Let’s start with everyone using a little common sense… Obey the golden rule they tried to teach you in primary-school… Do unto others as you would have them do unto you… Protect your children like you’re supposed to… If you feel the urge to stick a finger or worse up their butt, STOP! analyze your feelings before you act on them… It might not be best for all concerned… Seek help… Call a psychic hotline… Something… Anything other than acting on your urges… If you absolutely can’t resist the urge to stick something in their butt… Just kill yourself… It would be the more responsible thing to do…
I’ll admit that when I see Jessica Alba in any state of undress, I get urges that are extremely strong to say-the-least… But I don’t go peeping in her window waiting for the opportunity to rape the acting ability right out of her… This is not because I don’t possess the ability to, or even because I fear getting caught by the authorities and made to recount the story over and over to hundreds of sweaty, aroused policemen… It’s because it isn’t morally correct, and I have an obligation to protect Ms. Alba from the depravities of my own mind…
I also have an obligation to protect my children, which means having to shed some of my own narcissistic tendencies, and take an actual interest in their lives… Meet their teachers, keep a wary eye on the sweaty dude trying a little too hard to teach them man-on-man defense in gym… And educating them to the perils of the world around them… Of course if their home-ec. teacher looks like Mary Kay Letourneau, I’ll just buy ‘em a 12-pack of condoms, and wish ‘em luck…
We need to stop ‘letting’ the government decide what’s best for us, they are our servants, not our masters.
Trouble the Pirate penned this
Sexual predators aren’t sewn-together from old body parts and then zapped with a lightening bolt to give them life…
Trouble the Pirate got all philosophical
PJ… “Damn — you’re cynical today, you ole’ salty dog!”… While I’ll admit to the “ole’ salty dog” part, I take umbrage to the “cynical today” part… I’m ALWAYS cynical, bro…
Some people are like… “the glass is half full…” and some are like “the glass is half empty…” …I’m all like “Stay the hell away from my glass idiot, you’re gonna knock it over and spill what’s left of my beer…” 
Willy the Virgin thought this
Pirate touches on a great point. All these counter-productive sex offender laws are never going to be a subsitute for parental oversight. You can pass all the laws you want to further and further confine us to areas where you dont have to look at us but since the vast majority of child sex crimes are commited by first time offenders and by someone the child knows, who has dropped the ball here, lawmakers or parents?
Christine the Lioness scribbled
Who has dropped the ball? I’ll take that to mean “Who should’ve kept the kids safe and failed?” Let’s see… uh… the sex offender??? Yeah, maybe we should start there since without him, there’s nothing to be protected from.
Since we can’t foresee the future (well, maybe some can but they’re busy making their 50 grand a year helping sad divorcees), we don’t know who will be a sex offender until an offense is committed. And yes, that sucks for victim #1. However, given that we now know Person A is a sex offender, that crystal ball is a bit more clear.
Parental oversight is definitely important and I won’t suggest there isn’t a lack of it, but honestly, how can you supervise your kids at every moment? How do I know when I walk out of Wal-Mart tonight, some crazy fuck won’t be hiding behind my car and rape me? In short, I don’t know that. I can’t know that. All I can do is take as many precautions as I feel make me safe. I could take more. I could never leave my house and then I could be 100% sure that that specific scenario I described won’t happen. But there is some inherent risk just to living life. It’s not possible to raise children alone. They will have contact with other adults– teachers, uncles, coaches, the lady who teaches Sunday school…
Trouble… your comments about the golden rule suggest that (1) the people committing these crimes give a shit– many of them were abused sexually themselves, and (2) have the mental capacity and forethought to make rational decisions about their actions. I don’t think people with compulsions do always have the ability to rationalize the compulsion and stop before they do it.
ProphetJoe the Irreverent scribbled
Bacardi is disinfectant, and Capt. Morgan’s is disinfectant with some season-all added…
Pyrat cask 23 [Anguilla], Appleton dark [Jamaican], Gosling’s OLD or Black Seal [Bermudan], Ron Zacapa Centenario [23 yr-old] or Ron Botran [both Guatemalan], Diplomatico Riserva Exclusiva [Venezuela], Mount Gay 12 yr. [Barbados] or lastly, Tortuga 12 yr. [Cayman Islands - both last ones are amber…]
Trouble, I tried Gosling’s Black Seal (I liked it a lot) and I couldn’t find the “Mount Gay 12 year old” (which is a REALLY bad name for a rum ), but I tried Rhum Barbancourt’s 15 year old and it was REALLY STRONG — good, but definitely too strong for my tastes as a pure sipping rum.
Maybe my tastes do run toward the light, fruity-flavored disinfectants… what the hell, they always seem to lubricate the fairer sex — that works for me! 
ProphetJoe the Irreverent spake, and sayeth
So what do you recommend for a light coconut or pineapple flavored rum?
Christine the Lioness mentioned
Malibu. (Coming from the fairer sex that has fallen prey to Christopher’s “lubrication.” LOL)
Trouble the Pirate asserted
I don’t… If you have to add fruity flavoring to your imbibement, then you’re either drinking the wrong drink… Or not trying hard enough…
E.g. Before you spend five minutes squeezing a lime wedge & a dash of Grenadine syrup into, and salting the rim of your Corona… Just grab a Heineken…
Christine the Lioness chimed in with
Trouble’s a “purist” don’t ya know…
ProphetJoe the Irreverent thought this
Pure what, is the question — pure Trouble (with a capital T)
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