Christine the Lioness (3122)
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Mara the Peacemaker (533)
eric the Lil' Devil (351)
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Ben the Kingpin (213)
Haas the Addict (187)
Christine 2 the Mercenary (131) Lei the Mercenary (124) Katie the Mercenary (115)
John1040 the Soldier (59) Haas the Addict said this
I guess its the case with all religions [-o< (or holy books) that are really old… But as of everything that involves religion its a really touchy subject :-t
Ben the Kingpin scribbled
The biggest problems are from two extremes:
1) Do everything the Bible says WORD FOR WORD.
2) The Bible is just a storybook, glean your own personal truth from the pages.
(I’m excluding those who don’t actually revere the texts, mind you.)
The fact of the matter is that the Bible represents 4000 years of accumulated teachings. Some are to be taken literally and word-for-word. (”Don’t commit murder,” “Don’t steal,” “Honor your parents,” etc.) Some is there for illustrating the teachings. And sometimes the best illustration is the worst example. “See, if you don’t follow these precepts, this is the kind of thing you may have to deal with!”
It’s also a book that needs to be taken in context–and in historical context.
The fact that modern day people want to discount everything found within it “just because it’s in the Bible” is yet another problem.
I’ve been studying the Bible for more then three dacades. Some of my studies have been extremely intense and in-depth examinations. Some have simply been reading and research.
As I say often, “You can base any kind of evil thinking you want to imagine on material from the Bible. However, you cannot say that the Bible endorses or teaches anything but a very fine line of values.” Regardless of the illustrations found in the Bible, the teachings it espouses are very clear. The problem is that when you get a bunch of people who only know one small segment, or are trying to twist the words to say what they want them to say, then you get some really off-the-wall ideas.
Christine the Lioness hunt n' pecked this
The Bible is a book. If it were cut and dry, we wouldn’t need ministers in church and Sunday school teachers, and t.v. evangelists to “sermonize” them every week so we can understand them. The Bible– like any book– is a collection of stories and thoughts conveyed with words. Words represent stories and thoughts and concepts… but not always exactly the way they were intended. I’m a writer and I’ll be the first to tell you that words very often fall short of accurately conveying a thought. There simply aren’t enough words in the English language to depict the myriad of thoughts we have accurately. And, if that weren’t enough, venacular and vocabulary evolves over time, making for a greater disparity. And don’t forget that in order to read and understand a story, we must bring with us a prior knowledge of the context of the story. The context we bring is often not the context the writer(s) had when the text was written. So… I think we get into problems when we take the Bible word for word. Because even if 10 of us did that, we could come up with 10 different interpretations. I always raise an eyebrow when people call the Bible the “word of God.” It’s not. It’s a book. Period. With the same aforementioned drawbacks any book has. They want to believe it’s something more, but if logic prevails, they’d know it’s not. That doesn’t mean it’s not valuable or a great basis for teaching or developing one’s morals. But it’s still just a book, ya’all.
Christine 2 the Mercenary scribbled
Not only that, but it’s also interpreted through people who were “men of God.” Just as every investigator knows, personal accounts of actual events change dramatically when passed through the words of people. When you are in downtown Atlanta and a crazy guy with a shopping cart walks up to you to let you know what God just told him, you listen doubtfully, or run away. I’m not sure that I trust people that claim to have spoken with God (like Jerry Falwell). That’s a case of inflated ego and detached reality. That doesn’t mean there isn’t lots to learn from the bible, there certainly is. However, you have to be careful how seriously you interpret things based solely on the importance that society has given it. Old Native American stories teach very important values that we can all learn from, yet you know that the bear never talked. Nor did the bear think, or learn a lesson. It’s simply a way to teach values that are easily accepted by a large group of people. That’s not to say that the value isn’t correct, but rather that you should be smart enough to interpret the deeper meaning of a story, rather than taking it purely for face value. I think Christine made very good points on the limitations of words. Even though she spelled ya’ll wrong heehee 
ashley the Virgin remarked
They left out “infanticide.”
Also, the Bible says within itself that it must be taken word for word, jot for jot, tittle for tittle. So logically it follows that one should; or else deny it any validity at all. I find fanatical Christians more forgivable than moderates. Less hypocrisy.
Christine the Lioness hunt n' pecked this
Ashley… If the “Bible says within itself that it must be taken word for word, jot for jot, tittle for tittle…” then don’t you think it logically follows that IF you believe everything the Bible tells you, you would inherently already believe that too? However, if you see the Bible as a “collection of written instructions and stories” ie– a book (which is what it actually is) then whatever part tells you to take it word for word, is just as subjective as the rest of it.
The thing is… to believe that the Bible must be taken word for word… you MUST dismiss logic and assume that words can accurately convey 100% of the time a thought, story, or concept. The truth is… they don’t. I can give you a million examples of how words fall short.
So fanatical Christians who, by nature, dismiss logic so that they can believe they must take the Bible “word for word,” are simply believing without doing any critical thinking on the matter at all. I would much rather believe something told to me if I knew it came from someone who had looked at a lot of angles objectively and thought it through, than from someone who doesn’t question anything and just repeats back what they were told. Once you start to employ those critical thinking skills, a lot of those fanatical Christians’ beliefs fall apart.
Christopher the Pyro got all philosophical
Hmm.. I think you just descriped the definition of “faith” Christine. 
Christine the Lioness stated
LOL!
Not exactly… while faith can exist despite a logical premise… faith can also exist in the absence of a logical premise. So, while I can prove that written words fall short of conveying concepts and thoughts (which means believing the bible is the word of God would be believing *despite* proof otherwise), belief in God Himself is faith too (but there is no evidence that actually disproves the existence of God).@};-
Ben the Kingpin pontificated
Ashley,
That’s incorrect.
Y’shua said that “the Law will not pass away”, not “one jot or tittle”. The Bible is more than just “the Law”. The Law, as summarized by Y’shua, is “Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, soul and strength and love thy neighbor as thyself.”
That should be taken word for word. The rest is alternately story, history, example, prophecy, etc, etc, etc.
ashley the Virgin quibbed this
Various responses to the various justifications.
Christine, there is no evidence that disproves any religious construct. That’s the core of the fallacy; falsifiability. Without evidence there is nothing to talk about, unless you want to discuss how the Gnostics saw the Judeo/Christian/Islam God as evil and sadistic. There’s exactly as much evidence for that as any dark ages detritus for which you’re playing the apologist.
Christine 2 the Mercenary commented
Yea well the bible also tells the charming, heartwarming story of two daughters who get their father drunk and then sleep with him. I learned a lot from that story. And truly, in all actuality, we can’t forget the change in TIMES. If God told me today that I had to sacrifice my one and only child in order to prove my love for Him, I would probably go see a doctor before I went looking for my knife. Faith is very important…but let’s not forget that so is common sense. If I had interpreted the bible word for word, my little close-minded brain might explode upon confronting the contradiction between “thou shalt not kill” and “kill your kid in my name”. And before anybody nails me to that cross, yes I know that he was stopped by the angels..but he was gonna do it!
Mara the Peacemaker pontificated
To Christine 2: There is also always the story of Jacob– a liar and a thief if I ever saw one — who becomes the father of the 12 tribes of Israel. Go figure.
Samuel the Virgin scribbled
Lol this is still quite funny though
Christine the Lioness remarked
I had totally forgotten about this post. 
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