Christine the Lioness (3122)
Christopher the Pyro (1985)
ProphetJoe the Irreverent (1228)
Trouble the Pirate (600)
Keith the Director (573)
Mara the Peacemaker (530)
eric the Lil' Devil (351)
AJ the Zen Master (305)
Ben the Kingpin (213)
Haas the Addict (187)
Christine 2 the Mercenary (131) Lei the Mercenary (124) Katie the Mercenary (115)
Ben2 the Soldier (56) Christopher the Pyro remarked
Clearly what Christine is trying to say is that women are inferior to men.. I mean we can add to 4 and draw a straight line while women can only write and speak more clearly.
Seriously tho, while it might be true that it is all biological.. that does not mean she is any less crazy.. she really is but you can’t blame her, she never got the Y that would help her understand complexities of the world so she is just a bunch of simple X’s… take pity on her and keep it simple.
Christine the Lioness quibbed this
From Christopher’s response, my point is proven.
What he was trying to say was… that he agrees that men are good at manual labor (professional line drawer, mathemetician that can find factors of 4, etc.), while the careers that require a high level of communication skills (ambassadors, politicians, professors) should be left to the women.
Of course, being a male, Christopher’s verbal skills aren’t quite up to par, so his response didn’t come out quite the way he meant it. But that’s okay… I’m a girl… and compensating for Christopher’s shortcomings is what I’m here for. 
Christopher the Pyro remarked
I’ll agree with that, women never seem to shut the hell up.. they will talk and talk and talk and talk.. it would be great if we could just use them to talk.. I mean they are good with their mouths.. i won’t argue that for a second.
Christopher the Pyro scribbled
Why men think women are crazy? Hrmm.. I wonder if it ever occured to them that maybe they are crazy?
Christine the Lioness spake, and sayeth
Sometimes it’s easier to call someone crazy when you don’t know how to spell “genius.” 
Christopher the Pyro spake, and sayeth
I’ve already “proved”:http://www.chrisvschris.com/2005/03/17/spelling-not-so-important/ that knowing how to spell isn’t important
Christine the Lioness chimed in with
And apparently, from Christopher’s last comment, neither is grammar.
BetaCandy the Virgin uttered
I’ve been keeping an eye on this sort of research for a long time, and I’ll be curious to see if it stands up over time as we learn more.
I don’t doubt biology plays a role, but I’ve known a lot of guys who talk endlessly, particularly about their feelings and gossip. I, on the other hand, prefer action to words and refuse to share my feelings more than twice a year. Rage excepted. It’s always okay to show rage. 
I do suck at math, though. So that part holds up.
Christine the Lioness added
LOL! There’s actually a really good book about this if you really are interested in looking at it from a research based pov– even though this book is written by a psychologist. It’s called “What Could He Be Thinking?” by Michael Gurian. I am reading it right now and feel that a lot of it holds true from my experiences.
I on the other hand, love to talk about my feelings and was pretty good at math. Although I have to say, that math skill must have proved less worthy than other skills because as I’ve become an adult, my brain replaced my ability to do math with other things…
Trouble the Pirate up'n wrote this
Interesting… But I can’t finish all now… Will save you for later…
Christine the Lioness penned this
Don’t worry, Trouble. We’ll wait for ya.
Alex the Groupie mentioned
Very soon after conception, the fetus develops either a ?female brain? or a ?male brain? because it is being influenced by ?female hormones? or ?male hormones.?
You neglected one very important point, though: women’s addled minds never recover from the onslaught of hormones. Only sex or large quantities of chocolate will afford them a temporary respite, and a rare opportunity for equilibrium.
Christopher the Pyro chimed in with
That might be the truest paragraph that has EVER appeared on our site.
Christine the Lioness mentioned
Leave it to a man to think that because women are different, they must be inferior… honestly, I think it takes a much more evolved thought process to accept and understand that it is this balance between the female mind and the male mind that has ensured the survival of the species. Whether you believe in Creation or Evolution, it is this balance between the man and the woman that is built into us… we are designed to seek out a mate as our counterpart… that is a need within most of us… and the combination of the male and female– including everything that makes up that combination– their ways of thinking, their internal drives, their ability to nurture vs. go out and support their family– is required for procreation. If women and men thought exactly alike, there would be no desire to find a partner of another gender. While I woldn’t possibly ever pretend that I understand the male brain all the time (or even most of the time), it is because it is what it is that makes me attracted to men. And while you sit there and criticize women for thinking like women, the truth is… the way we think and talk and look and act are all part of why you probably don’t go a day without thinking about women (or at least one special one).
And Alex, actually, in the early stages, a fetus receives only female hormones… in later stages, the actual sex of the fetus is determined by a change in hormones that makes it either male or female.
Peter the Virgin said this
I’m opposed to jock sniffing for any reason by anyone. Not as a law, but it would be my advice.
Christine the Lioness penned this
What the hell is jock sniffing? Sounds gross…
Trouble the Pirate remarked
Okay, came back to this one… What interests me is that you mention a woman’s thought process becomes ‘more female’ during the ‘female’ hormone influx associated with pre-menstruation, and they perform more poorly in ?male? oriented tasks. It took scientific study to figure that out? Every guy has known this since Eve threw the apple at Adam. I do agree with all your points however. The one corollary you missed is that since WOMEN are the volatile ones who can?t control the fluctuations in their thought processes every month, maybe Chris is right and they all are just crazy? Thank goodness MEN aren?t slaves to a hormone like you guys are Then where would the human race be?
Christopher the Pyro remarked
Seriously. Can you imagine if we had a woman president, the rest of the world would be wondering each day if there were going to be on the victim of a hormone induced invasion, because the cost of their shoes or makeup went up.
Christine the Lioness quibbed this
You make it sound like women are incapable of being anything more than slaves to their hormones and have little perception beyond reacting to how much materialistic items cost… despite what you think… it’s the differences between women and men that make them compatible and give us that drive to be with someone of the opposite gender. Christopher’s “woman hating” really does get old. As a woman, I enjoy being one, and it’s sad that you feel we should all be like you. As a matter of fact, I have a feeling that if we were, you wouldn’t fall all over yourselves doing everything in your power to try to make us happy. So think women are crazy if you want… or have a little tolerance beyond your own limited little world and realize that not only do women and men think differently because of hormones, but there’s nothing wrong with it. And quite frankly, if you can’t figure that out… then you’re either stupid or your machismo is so in the way of your ability to open your mind, you might be better off with a little more estrogen and a little less testosterone.
Christopher the Pyro hunt n' pecked this
Ahh,
Accept once men realize that a happy woman is an impossiblity.. we eventually just give up and accept our fate. I don’t hate women.. I love women! Women are good for all kinds of things that women contribute to society. I can think of four right off the top of my head.. (breakfast, lunch, dinner and sex..) now if anybody thinks they can expand on that list good luck!
Christine the Lioness scribbled
And he wonders why women just aren’t so happy with him…???
I’ll let you in on a secret… keeping a woman happy is easy. Treat her with respect, and she’ll be your’s forever.
Christopher the Pyro pontificated
That isn’t true.
Christine the Lioness penned this
You’re right… I’m sure there are women who leave relationships that were good and where they were being treated with respect. But there are also women who stay and try to work it out when their guys aren’t being all that nice to them… and there are men who bail out of 25 year marriages to be with younger woman, and there are those who love their wives and never cheat or want to leave. The key is finding the right person I guess, but trying to generalize about it will probably make you look like an ass because I can always find an example to prove the theory wrong.
Trouble the Pirate uttered
That’s it… I’m turning gay…
kyle the Groupie hunt n' pecked this
well i am going to sum all this up….. men don`t understand women and admit it by saying they are crazy. While women think they know men and go about trying to change them (and the women go off on there mental times of the month).
Christine the Lioness stated
So Kyle… how exactly does “Women are just crazy” equate to “I don’t understand women”? Funny how a man’s way of admitting one of his own incompetencies turns into deciding someone else must have the character flaw. LOL!
kyle the Groupie spake, and sayeth
hmm well i may be incompetent but i am quite certain that i do not have incompetencies…. but who cares about spelling… well let`s see how about alaskan crab fishermen. now they must be crazy right? to risk all their lives for a quick pay day…. but to them you`d be crazy not to.. so the term crazy just depends on your point of view. We don`t know how to justify a woman`s actions so we think they must be crazy… even though other women think that they are just acting normal
Christine the Lioness said this
Oh, I get it… it’s a lack of a well-rounded vocabulary… LOL!
kyle the Groupie asserted
WOMEN….
sappho the Virgin penned this
Anyone with at least a pea of a brain in their head would read this exchange and have to logically conclude hands down that Christine has the much better argument.
Christopher the Pyro spake, and sayeth
Rightt……
Christine the Lioness penned this
So Sappho… I guess it makes sense then that the women are the ones agreeing with me…
Alex the Groupie hunt n' pecked this
“Anyone with at least a pea of a brain in their head would read this exchange and have to logically conclude hands down that Christine has the much better argument.”
But anyone with at least a normal size brain would agree with Christopher.
This reminds me of an old sexist joke:
Why does the doctor slap babies when they’re born?
To knock the penes off the stupid ones.
Christine the Lioness asserted
Oh… I get it… women are stupid AND crazy… heh… heh heh… heh… that one was hi-lar-i-ous, Alex. When does your HBO special come out?
Christopher the Pyro quibbed this
Alex, don’t worry she woke up without her sense of humor…
Anonymous the Virgin penned this
Christopher my dear,It’s okay.all of this pressure is leaving you in a bit of a situation,so you keep on repeating the same thing.Poor little insecure sexist you. Atleast women can think of more to say. In our world,speech and thought is what shapes us,not baseball or golf. As a man,i appreciate women in every sense of the word,and realise that they are far more complex than us.thats what makes them so beautiful. i think that it is only those who are insecure with themelves that view the opposite sex as inferior.
Ben2 the Soldier commented
This coming from a man who doesn’t have the balls to give his own name.
eric the Lil' Devil mentioned
i can’t believe that someone would actually pen that women are stupid and crazy! that is almost offensive! woman will always have more intelligence than men! they will just never use it until after they go psychotic and jump to the wrong conclusion first! i however will happily leave my name because every woman that i degrade and turn into a whore is my next example of proof to my theory! all except christine ofcourse , love ya baby
Christine the Lioness chimed in with
For a gender that has been described as stupid, crazy, and psychotic, we sure seem to have a lot of power of you boys. The things guys have done to try to get my attention/affections/pussy took an unbelievable amount of planning and effort.
I find it interesting that guys (at least on this blog) feel this way about women. Most women that I know– not all, but most– have a lot of respect for men in general. The things that make us hot for them are the things that are unique to men… their bodies, their voices, their strength, the way they approach situations which are many times, very different from the way we do it. Most women love being around men. I think there is a balance achieved for us when we are in the presence of testosterone. And I think “inferiority” is subjective. You can look at the opposite sex and think they are inferior because they, for example, aren’t as strong as you are and can’t lift as much weight. Or… you can look at the opposite sex and appreciate that they are soft and slender and aren’t packed with muscle (unless you’re gay). You’re in charge of how you want to see things, and I suppose we all choose what we think serves us best.
Mike the......whatever the Virgin thought this
Christine
Your statements are flawless, enlightening and entertaining. Your points well written and Immaculately clear. If it is respect that you seek Madam you have it!!!
ProphetJoe the Irreverent added
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Geez, what a suck-up!
As a rule (well, MY rule), neither ethnicity nor gender makes one inferior. You may very well have encountered numerous Asians, Hispanics, African-Americans, Caucasians, men, women or ___________ (fill in your personal bias choice here) which you feel are inferior, but that perception is usually based on your limited exposure to, or your unreasonable expectations of, that particular group.
For example: 60-65 years ago, most Americans felt Germans and Japanese were ALL evil little miscreants. With the benefit of time and mass communications, we now see that NOT all Germans were actively supportive of the Holocaust, nor were all Japanese aware of the death marches. Furthermore, history shows us that Japan *probably* intended for their declaration of war to be delivered prior to the attack on Pearl Harbor — the single event which galvanized Americans’ distrust of all things Japanese for the next 25-50 years.
In short, judge individuals’ (or perhaps small group) actions, not entire classes of people.
ProphetJoe the Irreverent asserted
P.S. — BUT all red-headed women are c0(k-su(king whores trying to trap a man.
Trouble the Pirate hunt n' pecked this
Only 3 types of people ‘declare war’… The British, the losers and Bugs Bunny… And technically the third ain’t a people… If’n I’m gonna wage war on sump’in, I ain’t lettin’ on ’till the very last second…
Trouble the Pirate pontificated
The only good red-heads… Are shaved red-heads…
Trouble the Pirate said this
Well PJ… Looks like it’s just you and me against the world here bro… Well, Mike’s not going to be much help hiding in Christine’s butt
I left this one alone ’cause Christine was jumping all over the place with her so-called argument… Starting off all scientifical with chromosomes, mental abilities, reasoning etc… And then boiling down to physical attraction based on “their bodies, their voices, their strength, the way they approach situations”…
Fact is, and I quote little Joseph, in Kindergarten Cop… “Boys have a penis, girls have a vagina!”… This is what drives all men to conform to whatever insipid frivolity waxes forth from womens’ rarely closed mouths…
Even Christine’s last statement outlined this… “For a gender that has been described as stupid, crazy, and psychotic, we sure seem to have a lot of power of you boys. The things guys have done to try to get my attention/affections/pussy took an unbelievable amount of planning and effort.
I find it interesting that guys (at least on this blog) feel this way about women. Most women that I know not all, but most have a lot of respect for men in general.” …to adjust the correctness of this, one would only have to do the following:
“For a gender that has been described as stupid, crazy, and psychotic, we sure seem to have a lot of power over you boys. The things guys have done to try to get my attention/affections PUSSY took an unbelievable amount of planning and effort.
I find it interesting that guys (at least on this blog) feel this way about women. Most women that I know not all, but most have a lot of respect for men in general… After they realize that when they’ve finished polishing up that ‘diamond-in-the-rough-of-a-man-they-found’ that all they were left with was a sweaty brow, finger-cramps, and a smaller, shinier rock, of no real greater value to anyone… Other than ANOTHER woman… Once they’ve smartened -up and realized that men are beautifully simplistic, ergonomic and superior creatures who will only suffer and regress when confined by the limits of female logic”…
Mike the......whatever the Virgin hunt n' pecked this
The last comments were pretty predictable but I must admit the number of syllables surprised me. Comming from you single guys( surprise ) dosn’t really hold much weight.
Trouble the Pirate up'n wrote this
Ha ha! Good one Mike… I have no come-back because thesaurus.com isn’t suggest any for me… Stupid thesaurus dot com…
Trouble the Pirate remarked
Note to self… Never bring a crayon to a pencil fight…
Christine the Lioness chimed in with
Oh boy, Mike… you have no idea what you just walked into. Prophet Joe (surprisingly enough) has a hot wife that’s much younger than he is… and Trouble, well… the name says it all.
Mike the......whatever the Virgin chimed in with
I guess he must be rich!…………………………That was uncalled for. My appologise Joe.
Incidently I am part of a small group, some of them young men newly married and we are disscussing and I guess if you will studying the female heart. In partnership, the ladies are attempting to study male heart. We are using 2 books appropriately named ” for men only” and for women only. Both appear so far as excellent and endorsed for the most part by both groups. In the beginning some of the young men referred to women as emotionally unstable, illogical, unscientific etc.
I presented your article along with it’s blog history and I dont mind telling you they were shocked and humbled by your reaction to attacks. What was most interesting and I think you might find the same is- a young lady like yourself goes against their perceptions and presents something logically, concise and scientific based and the MALE reaction to this result in anger induced attacks and the need to resort to petty insult (not all I might add ). As I continued to read down, in order, I see and hear within our group an anticipation of your response. In short ( Too late for that I guess ) I heard comments like “Ohh Noo she is gonna explode!!!” I read your final response DEC.10 2006. It remained calm, accurate and actually complimentary to men in sections. There was silence in the room as if they were expecting more. Come on where is the attack back when does she lose it. Didnt happen. There are a few young men with a whole new opinion forming about the female heart and mind. It begs the question, who is emotionally unstable? Anyways, sucking up is not my intent rather it is to broaden my genetically closed mind. Once again my applologise to my attack on some of the men in this blog for my comments. They were out of line and actually there was some excellent humor in some of the response and at least they took the time to read your article and respond.
Peace and thanks to all for the great material
ProphetJoe the Irreverent up'n wrote this
Wow, Mike’s a suck-up AND he’s using us as research subjects — this blog has sunk to a new low!!!
Seriously (yes, Christine, I can be serious – it’s just that I normally opt not to be when I’m here), it is true. I’m in my mid 40’s, have 3 great kids and am married to an incredibly hot (let alone, wonderful) wife who is about 12 years younger than I.
I must now reiterate and expand upon my earlier comment:
“As a rule, neither ethnicity nor gender makes one inferior.
It is a natural (or perhaps you’d prefer, “scientific”) fact that women are different than men. If you look at group stereotypes, you could easily say many women are naturally maternal and this leads to them wanting to “mother” their men and mold them into “better men”. Likewise, many men are simplistic in their social skills and come across as uncaring (when really it is inexperience that is the problem). In terms of a stereotype, I suppose it is reasonable (albeit foolish) to say that women nag their men and men take their women for granted.
If, however, you look at the individuals you see a different dynamic at work — Individual women may act crazy during their period, or they may act crazy during 2-3 periods in the last 24 months — that does NOT mean all women are crazy during their periods! Likewise, individual men are not typically slow and simplistic as women might have you believe — well, except for Mike the suck-up…
OK, that’s where I just quit being serious again
Oh, and Mike, one more thing — don’t take EVERYTHING you read here to be factual or honest. I’ll admit I sometimes play the devil’s advocate and I’m not certain, but I’m pretty sure that others do too. Hell, there was even a rumor that Christopher wasn’t a man at all, but was really Christine’s lesbian lover playing an alter ego online, but I don’t want to go into that whole mess again. I wouldn’t want t0 malign the person who started THAT thread…
Cheers! 
ProphetJoe the Irreverent spake, and sayeth
Mike said: “…studying the female heart. In partnership, the ladies are attempting to study male heart. We are using 2 books appropriately named for men only and for women only.”
Of course the book about women is a 42 volume set and the book about men is 42 words long!
Trouble the Pirate quibbed this
Yeah but PJ, didn’t you start the rumor about ‘lesbian alter-ego Christine?
Christine the Lioness commented
Yes, he did. And no one believed it. But nice try again, PJ.
ProphetJoe the Irreverent pontificated
Hey, I didn’t say that I didn’t start it!
All I said was I didn’t want to malign the person who did… which is absolutely true.
Trouble the Pirate added
Yes… I got that…
Don the Virgin commented
You’re all completely insane. I started reading this thread and really wanted to respond to some stupid things that were said, then by the time I got to the end of it there were just too many. I would have needed 3 hours to respond to everything stupid said by both sexes/sides, and no one statement stood out more idiotic then the other, all I can really say without wasting half my day is that it all was complete horse sh*t. I really hope some of you are not this stupid, but it doesn’t surprise me. Good luck.
ProphetJoe the Irreverent asserted
Thanks, Don!!!!! (or should I call you Mara??) 
Trouble the Pirate added
Wow! Someone must’ve corn-holed Don before he was ready this morning… Hope those piles heal up soon buddy… 
Christine the Lioness chimed in with
You know, I went back to try to find the stupid things said in this thread and… seriously… I can’t find ‘em… what do you think Don is talking about???
Mara the Peacemaker quibbed this
PJ, I resent that…
ProphetJoe the Irreverent hunt n' pecked this
Hmmm, I lost another comment into purgatory moderation… ?
Trouble the Pirate asserted
Ditech?
ProphetJoe the Irreverent commented
Geez, do they inundate you with Ditech commercials in the Cayman Islands too??
I thought that was a private, American burden we were forced to bear by ourselves — hell, for that matter, I thought the Cayman Islands were supposed to be paradise.
Well, it almost 2:00.. time for a 
ProphetJoe the Irreverent thought this
[crickets chirping]
Hello… *echo*
Mael Diabolus the Groupie remarked
Males and females are indeed different, and it’s a wonderful system of difference.
As a previous user mentioned, our differences provide a balance that allow the survival of our species. Females are not so much inferior as they are generally suited to certain tasks, like empathetic reasoning, nurturing, and child rearing. Males generally exhibit more dominant character traits, mentally and physically. This is why Males have pretty much made the rules for thousands of years in our species. The modern world has brought about a new age of “the eroticization of equality,” in which we are striving to “liberate” females of their natural roles, but I suspect certain species-typical traits between our sexes will be difficult to erase in the long run.
Are women crazy? Only when socially pressured to be something they’d rather not be. 
Mara the Peacemaker said this
Like a housewife.
Trouble the Pirate remarked
…or a prostitute…
Christine the Lioness quibbed this
If men generally make the rules… then it must be men who want prostitution to be illegal.
I think Mael is right in the sense that many men don’t see value in “empathetic reasoning, nurturing, and child-rearing.” And they tend to devalue women who bring those inherently feminine qualities to the workplace. For example, the study they just did on women who get raises and promotions. In short, women who “act” like men and approach problems without empathetic reasoning, are promoted faster and make more money.
Men don’t understand how women think, so it makes life much easier for them if women don’t “act” like women and instead “act” like men. Then they know how to deal with them and life is easy and good.
Because of that, I think a lot of women are sort of forced to let go of who they are and how they would inherently think and approach issues– and while it may get them ahead in their jobs, it doesn’t necessarily allow them to be who they are. I mean, if we made men act more like women, most straight men are probably smart enough to figure out how to do it, but they wouldn’t feel comfortable.
I don’t think it’s that women want to necessarily be housewives as Mael was sort of suggesting. It would be great if women could go out in the world and do whatever they want to do for a career, and not have to compensate and prove to men that they are worthy by denying some of the inherently feminine qualities they have. We’re just not there yet, in my opinion.
Some men are much more aware of this and accepting than others, but as this blog post proves, there are still many who find it easier to just assume women are crazy than understand that they inherently think differently.
Trouble the Pirate chimed in with
“If men generally make the rules then it must be men who want prostitution to be illegal.”
Of course… Well… Not so much illegal, as government regulated to keep the prices down…
Mara the Peacemaker uttered
I was thinking of prostitution more broadly — you know, that at the end of the day, women barter for things, love, affection, etc with sex. Or at least, that is a theory I’ve heard from some who are argue that most women are prostitutes. Although for the women who truly enjoy sex, this theory probably doesn’t work.
Christine the Lioness scribbled
There are women who don’t enjoy sex?
Mara the Peacemaker stated
Our generation’s own feminine mystique.
But I think I meant to say desire sex as much rather than enjoy. Or not. I was at a slumber party some months back — it was a mentoring effort for teenage girls by the young adults at the church I attend. On the topic of sex, several of the women expressed that it was no big deal, that it was nice but nothing to write home about, etc. I can admit it. I was quite aghast. I thought “My god, what kind of sex are you people having?” Maybe these are examples of repressed Christian women. Maybe I’m just a closet freak who thinks every woman should be able to point to a great sexual experience in her life. But I have heard of many women at least not enjoying the sex they’re getting for whatever reason yet they still feel compelled to put out.
Mael Diabolus the Groupie got all philosophical
“Are women crazy? Only when socially pressured to be something theyd rather not be.”
“Like a housewife.”
Or a another poster girl clone conditioned by social trends to advance the agenda of the “strong, ruggedly individualistic and empowered woman”hear her roar!
Mara the Peacemaker penned this
Um…yeah.
Christine the Lioness stated
Did someone just lose their job to a woman???
You know it’s kind of interesting though that there are men out there (like Christopher) who actually LIKE being with someone who is strong, ambitious, individualistic. He not only supports me being that way, but encourages it. When I feel beat down at work, he tells me to buck up and keep kicking ass. I think he also likes that I have my own life and my life doesn’t revolve around him.
I’m not saying women should be housewives or not be housewives. I think women should do what truly makes them happy whether it’s advance the agenda of empowered, career-oriented women or find fulfillment staying home and raising their kids. Who are we to criticize either choice– as long as it’s her choice and she’s not giving up something she wants because she’s married to someone like Mael or feels she has to go out and work when she’d really rather be at home with her family.
When I was working at a health club, I knew a woman who had quit her job to stay home with her baby and despite that’s what she thought a good mother should do, she was miserable. She was wound so tight and she always came in looking totally frazzled. One day she burst into tears because one of the women in the babysitting room gave her some unsolicited advice about how to get her son to sit down when it was time to eat. I can tell you, she was literally going crazy because she was trying to be something that didn’t fulfill her. On the other hand, I’ve seen women stop working and raise kids and be completely happy doing it. I’ve also known a couple of men who quit their jobs to take care of the kids and their wives continued to work– and they didn’t have any complaints.
Mara: With regards to the repressed Christian women— that’s interesting. Maybe they were just trying to downplay it so the virgins wouldn’t think they’re missing out on something and then go get pregnant? I will say (I know I’ve told this story before) that there was a time in my life with ex-fiance where I did not want to have sex with him– I just really didn’t enjoy it anymore. It wasn’t about sex so much as there were so many things bothering me about our relationship that I just wasn’t attracted to him anymore. Maybe some of the women are in such a rut with their husbands or boyfriends that they’re experiencing that.
I also do think (and we’ve all discussed this before) that it can be hard for women to know how they should fit in to the angel/whore thing. If they choose “angel,” they feel a little threatened by women who enjoy and want sex… if they choose “whore,” they feel like hypocrites in trying to live a Christian lifestyle.
Or… like you said, maybe their guys just need a lesson in female anatomy 101.
Mael Diabolus the Groupie pontificated
Christine:
“I think Mael is right in the sense that many men dont see value in empathetic reasoning, nurturing, and child-rearing. And they tend to devalue women who bring those inherently feminine qualities to the workplace.”
I never said that, but you are an inventive soul…
The Straw Man
Christine the Lioness commented
Sorry to be misleading. I meant you are right in that women inherently have those qualities. I was adding my own opinion (from my own experience) when I added that most men typically dont see value in those qualities.
To set the record straight that is my opinion, not yours. Trust me when I say, our opinions are dissimilar in every way.
By the way, Mael… your site http://www.humbledfemales.com, is quite the interesting read. Creepy, but interesting nonetheless.
Here’s a little sample from the site…
“Our philosophy is centered around a simple, albeit unfasionable notion in mordern day society: that the female is meant to submit and defer to her male counterpartthat she is, by her very nature, a slave to the man who keeps her.”
Thank God the philosophy of the site is not centered around correct spelling. LOL.
Okay, back on a serious note. Could you clear something up?
You said in this thread: Females are not so much inferior as they are generally suited to certain tasks, like empathetic reasoning, nurturing, and child rearing.
But your site says Likewise, we support Male superiority, allowing men the freedom to be Men, and to use their strength and natural leadership instincts to shape their females and inspire loyal servitude.
Call it my inferior feminine mind, but those two things sort of seem to oh whats that really hard word I always hear men using??? Oh yeah conflict.
Mara the Peacemaker asserted
Christine, you may be right. I definitely think some Christian women (having been one myself once upon a time) feel a certain tension if you will when it comes to sexuality. And these probably were not the best examples of women to use since based on other conversations where teenage girls were not involved, my impression is that they’ve never been fucked right.
On to other topics, my jab at the housewife went right to what you said — women, people really, should be allowed to do what makes them happy, whether that’s choosing to have a career, staying home and raising your babies or doing both!
Christine the Lioness said this
Yep, I agree 100%.
Mael Diabolus the Groupie uttered
“You said in this thread: Females are not so much inferior as they are generally suited to certain tasks, like empathetic reasoning, nurturing, and child rearing.
But your site says Likewise, we support Male superiority, allowing men the freedom to be Men, and to use their strength and natural leadership instincts to shape their females and inspire loyal servitude.
Call it my inferior feminine mind, but those two things sort of seem to oh whats that really hard word I always hear men using??? Oh yeah conflict.”
There’s really no conflict in this at all. Many of us (and I include my own life experience) have lived productive and harmonious lives under this philosophy. The key word in the text you quoted is inspire. THAT is what many men fail to do, unfortunately. And…thanks for the plug. Spelling errors and all (now fixed, thanks).
Christine the Lioness spake, and sayeth
My pleasure– you are quite welcome for the plug. One of my many purposes in life is to eradicate the blogosphere of poor spelling practices. Just kidding… but we certainly do welcome alternative viewpoints on this site and our regular readers (me and Chris included) enjoy debating issues such as this one (you obviously realize that if you’ve spent any time on our site).
I did read the part about the inspiration. It wasn’t lost on me. But two questions remain…
1. You never answered the first about how “supporting Male superiority” and saying “Females are no so much inferior” are not hypocritical. Instead, you sort of skirted the issue (no pun intended) and tried to focus on inspiration.
2. Doesn’t female submission inherently suggest that the female submit prior to being “inspired” by the male to submit? If one must wait for inspiration, then they are making a choice at the point in time they wish to submit, and the ability to make that choice suggests free will. Free will is the opposite of submission, so I’m not sure I understand that whole concept.
I’m not saying you can’t live a harmonious life under this philosophy, but I do see that for many, choosing a lifestyle of submission (whether you’re male or female) is a way to “escape” from the difficulties and pressures associated with making decisions and accepting the responsibility for the outcome of those decisions on some level. By allowing someone to control you, you essentially put all decisions in their hands, freeing you of the pressure and work needed to “create” your own destiny and accomplish things on your own. I can certainly see how that might be liberating on some level. But it’s not that much different than someone who decides to escape through drugs and alcohol (no offense, Trouble ). An addict gives his life away to alcohol, and when he is high or drunk, he can escape from making decisions. The person who cares about the addict and supports that behavior is engaging in co-dependency. The men who choose to control a woman’s life either for their own benefit or because she wants to engage in that lifestyle is creating a codependency as well.
Mara the Peacemaker spake, and sayeth
Saying that women are not inferior yet claiming male superiority is not a conflict? You can’t have it both ways, Mael. Or can you? (See other discussion re: cake).
Speaking of cake, I’m considering 3-tier wedding cake with each layer a different flavor. I went to a bakery yesterday and the choices were endless. I still think we should elope…
Mara the Peacemaker spake, and sayeth
Christine, your second question reminded me of this cult I was in, albeit briefly. God, I’ve lived a lifetime in my 27 years…ANYway, total female submission was obviously one of the tenets of this group and there was definitely the view that women were to submit regardless of desire or inspiration. While I don’t think this is true for all men who embrace this philosophy, these men were dissatisfied with their own lives and wanted someone or something to control. Yes, they would couch it in “spiritual” language and whip out a Bible verse or two (Paul being the favorite, of course). Yet it was so obvious that these guys were not the “leaders” in the world, that they felt emasculated and controlling “their” women was how they regained self-respect which in turn led me to having absolute no respect for any of them.
And again, I do not think all men who advocate this philosophy get their kicks by controlling other people. I have some friends that live this way. I don’t get it, but if that’s what works for their family, hey, that’s what works for them. I just question the wisdom in basing intimate relationships on power and control and whether it is ultimately healthy for either of the parties involved.
Mael Diabolus the Groupie added
Christine (the Lioness),
In our chosen way of life, we support and promote male superiority, but we readily acknowledge it’s not for everyone. Within the non-religiously based tenets of our lifestyle, we do practice this way of thinking, but recognize diversity. The site says it better than I…
“We understand there is seldom, if ever, a single road to accomplishing anything in bioevolutionary terms, but we should not, at the height of our contemporary vanity and pride, denigrate or outright ignore the wisdom of a species-typical system that has worked for us…”
That is to say, we are open to new ideas, but choose to embrace a male dominant/female submissive lifestyle, because it works, and works well.
Your drug addict analogy is interesting. There is certainly an element of addiction and co-dependency inherent in such an imbalanced power structure, but one could say this about many things in life, if one looks deeply enough. I prefer to look at the authority structure as a symbiosis, not an evil plot of codependency for its own sake. Ironically, many women find freedom in submission to men. We advocate this path only if one is sure of it.
Mael (The Virgin)
P.s. I think not…
Christine the Lioness asserted
It’s interesting that you use the words “contemporary vanity” that is obviously a step in that bioevolutionary system that seems to have worked for so long. By ignoring that we have come to this point through that system, aren’t you doing exactly what you suggest you aren’t doing? Ignoring it?
BTW… was there a reason you didn’t answer the question I asked when Mara re-asked it the second time?
And is there a reason you avoided answering the second question I asked about it taking free will to decide if you’re inspired enough to be submissive?
The truth is… there is no answer to that question that you could give that wouldn’t contradict the statement about inspiration (my guess as to why you are avoiding it).
“Your drug addict analogy is interesting. There is certainly an element of addiction and co-dependency inherent in such an imbalanced power structure, but one could say this about many things in life, if one looks deeply enough.”
That is not, of course, to suggest that because it can be said about many things in life, that it is healthier than say the lack of addiction and co-dependency, is it?
I realize you’re not trying to put your beliefs off on anyone, but you do seem to be avoiding certain questions. And be assured, I certainly don’t think that there are any “evil plots of codependency.” Codependence is a natural phenomenon that occurs when someone finds another person who will feed his/her dependency.
Mara, I’m glad you got out of that. To be honest, it surprises me that someone as intelligent and logical as you are (and this may sound like a backhanded compliment, but it’s not intended to be) could get sucked into that even briefly. I know a few people who are in female submissive relationships under the pretense of religion as well– actually, I don’t really know them anymore. Friendships tend to disintegrate quickly when you have trouble relating to each other.
I can understand the sexual aspect of submission. I mean, is there anything hotter than having a big, strong alpha male type on top of you, his fingers entwined in your hair, the ridge of his shoulder inches from your face… you can taste the salt from his sweat and smell just a trace of his cologne still clinging to his wet skin as his other hand pins your wrist above your head… the stubble on his face rubbing against your cheek as he slides into you, repeatedly whispering in that gruff, masculine voice in your ear, “You’re mine… I can do anything I want.” Damn, I love that. Ahhhhh.
On a primal level, female submission in sex can certainly be fulfilling and erotic. Beyond that, I’m not sure I get it. When children are young, and you ask them what they want to be when they grow up, they’ll tell you they want to be whatever is interesting them at the time– girls might say “ballerina,” “veterinarian,” “singer,” “doctor,” etc. They base their dreams, goals, aspirations on a forming identity. If you asked a little girl what she wanted to be and her answer was “nothing. I want to be a slave to a man and do nothing more than serve him,” I would guess most people would be stunned. Why? Because children (who are a natural product of bioevolution without being “tainted” by societal pressures yet) would never, ever say that. Giving up an identity is counter-intuitive to how the human mind works. Humans are constantly trying to find ways to set themselves apart from others– and it has nothing to do with pride, it has to do with our natural drive to be the best and individuate ourselves from first our parents, then our peers.
Anyway… that’s all I have to say about that right now.
Mara, the three-tiered cake will be great regardless. Why is the whole wedding planning thing stressing you out so much? I think you should enjoy it. If you are one of the lucky 40% of people in this country, you’ll never have to do it again.
ProphetJoe the Irreverent penned this
Women ARE crazy, but then again, so are men.
I’ve noticed my 
is acting a little irrational lately too!
Mara the Peacemaker quibbed this
Christine, I don’t think it was a matter of intelligence or logic. I think when people are looking for something, they find it and will do anything to hold onto it. I wasn’t quite that extreme. I was fairly religious at the time, was looking for a church and they didn’t present themselves as a cult in any way. And when I realized what it was, I left. It was an interesting experience and though it was extreme, I realized some years and several churches that the Christian religion by its own terms (not spirituality or even faith) requires a person to surrender their rationality to some extent. They have to. How else could they believe that 2,000 years ago someone was raised from the dead when everything they know about the natural world says that it is physically impossible? They’ve never observed anyone coming back from the dead yet they believe it happened. Yet, if someone today were to say they witnessed something like that, many of us would be suspicious, we wouldn’t believe it.
Christine the Lioness penned this
Oh boy… I think you just found something Christopher could go off for HOURS about… He’s been going through an increasingly anti-religion stage lately.
I have to agree with you though, Mara, and I can completely understand that it’s natural to look for something “more” and that drive often brings people to religion (or in some cases– those who would like to corrupt religion for their own gain). But the intelligence part is a factor because ultimately it was your reasoning and rationale that made you recognize it was a cult.
By the way… Christopher and I recently saw “Jesus Camp.” It’s a very interesting documentary about Evangelism and the Christian “right.” Christopher and I both found it to be disturbing. The “religious experiences” they manufacture for their children are borderline child abuse if you want my opinion.
Mara the Peacemaker stated
I’ve seen Jesus Camp and found it disturbing as well. Religious fanaticism can be very powerful and sometimes, dangerous.
ProphetJoe the Irreverent got all philosophical
One must feel faith, not rationalize it. If Christian doctrine is correct (which I believe) then our (mere mortal) brains cannot comprehend the omnipotence of His existence…
Mara the Peacemaker hunt n' pecked this
PJ, I totally agree. That is, with people feeling faith, not Christian doctrine being correct. I think ultimately for me, I have a problem with using faith to make historical arguments instead of theological ones and I believe Christianity attempts to do both. To say that something is historically true requires the introduction of rationality into the equation. You do not *feel* history. In my own views, if there is a god, I question any one religion’s ability to comprehend or explain that god.
ProphetJoe the Irreverent penned this
I might propose that there is one “God” and that all religions are worshiping (or attempting to, anyway) the same deity.
The discourse comes from human ‘interpretation’ of the Deity. For example, the Catholic Church says the Pope is God’s representative on earth (ok, I’m not Catholic and that’s painfully obvious [by now] to the Catholics amongst us, but this is meant to be a loose definition) — if that were the case, and if the Pope had Jesus’ ear, so to speak, why wouldn’t he have used all of the Church’s vast millions and put in on the Giants to win? Then the Pope could have used the winnings to eliminate poverty!
Why didn’t he? Because, when the “church” (and I didn’t capitalize it for a reason, I mean any organized religious structure, not just the Roman Catholic Church) starts interjecting politics and dogma into the argument, then reasoning flies out the window.
The CHURCH teaches us that the Bible is infallible. We know it was written by mortals and we know they changed it over time, so how can it be divine? On the other hand, people used to say that the Great Flood was just a story told to get the masses in line (through fear and intimidation), but there is some scientific evidence to suggest that it really happened…
On the other hand (is this the third hand??), what about the dinosaurs. Why did they become extinct? Was it a massive cosmic event which changed the atmospheric climate?? Or were they practicing sodomy on the little dinosaurs, and thus felt the wrath of the Lord, ala Sodom and Gomorrah?
Just my 2 worth for today
(btw, I’m co-opting the bat to also represent a penny or “cent”)
Christine the Lioness said this
I see we finally found a subject PJ is interested in. I agree with you, Mara. I see a definite distinction between faith/spirituality and religion. Religion can be easily corrupted — and those who want to corrupt it and use it to control gravitate to it like sleazeballs gravitate to selling used cars.
And the Bible was written by man and therefore is not infallible. Anyone who has spent any time writing (and I say this honestly since I make a living doing exactly that) will tell you that words are easily manipulated, misinterpreted, and even in their purest form don’t adequately represent the thoughts they are trying to convey. They are the best representation we have, but they certainly don’t keep even the simplest notions from being misinterpreted.
PJ… how can you devalue a bat like that? They are worth much more than pennies…
Mara the Peacemaker quibbed this
Christine, Re: the infallibility of the Bible, we’d of course have to agree on what Bible we’re even talking about (e.g., the Catholic canon) or if any bible will do.
PJ, I have always found the concept of biblical infallibility interesting because I do not think (nor did I when I was a Christian) it is required to have a sound and true faith. If divine means that a text was inspired of god or inspired by the writer’s own revelations concerning god, then it is certainly possible to have a divine bible that is fallible.
Christine the Lioness commented
“Christine, Re: the infallibility of the Bible, wed of course have to agree on what Bible were even talking about (e.g., the Catholic canon) or if any bible will do.”
But you’re missing my point. No bible is infallible because it is a written account of events and doctrine which is fallible (so it doesn’t matter which Bible specifically).
I agree that a Bible is not necessary for faith or to be Christian, but to play devil’s advocate, those who use the Bible as “the word of God” (for example, born again Christians) cite that they do follow only the Bible’s teachings because the fallibility comes into play when people try to interpret it or base teachings on only part of it while discounting the other parts. My personal opinion is that there is very little difference between the two and it is inevitable that a book written even one hundred years ago (let alone two thousand years) will include elements that are no longer relevant or interpreted the way they would have been by the culture at the time they were written.
Mara the Peacemaker pontificated
Christine, I wasn’t saying that the bible isn’t necessary for Christian faith. I just don’t think a Christian necessarily has to believe in biblical infallibility. I also think that whether the bible is theologically infallible and whether it is historically are two different discussions. That the bible would include elements that were no longer relevant would not necessarily take away from its theological infallibility.
Mael Diabolus the Groupie quibbed this
Our decision is one of choice in the light that much of what is going on in society causes a lot of confusion and tension between the sexes. Western modernity has allowed us the luxury of confusing our “gender” roles. Will the current direction of society and all its inherent social experimentation stand the test of time? We shall see.
“And is there a reason you avoided answering the second question I asked about it taking free will to decide if you’re inspired enough to be submissive?”
We openly advocate women having a right to choose the men they serve. We do not see women as brainless automatons that simply obey men without question, nor do we want them to be. We do, however, believe most women are naturally suited to submissive roles in how they relate to men. We believe in encouraging and shaping their submission intelligently, as well as diffusing knowledge and understanding in men about what makes them worth following.
“And be assured, I certainly don’t think that there are any “evil plots of codependency.” Codependence is a natural phenomenon that occurs when someone finds another person who will feed his/her dependency.”
Agreed. And on that basis, we can see many examples throughout society in which this phenomenon applies. No one reading this message board is free of dependency, really. I’m certain I don’t need to itemize everyday examples of that. What is “healthy” and what isn’t in this vein becomes quite relative.
“On a primal level, female submission in sex can certainly be fulfilling and erotic.”
And it can be far more so when it is undertaken mentally and spiritually, as well as sexually.
ProphetJoe the Irreverent mentioned
Women are crazy because they don’t think the Bible is infallible…
sorry, just offering a counter balance to Mael Diabolus’ sex rant — wait a minute, I LIKE sexually submissive women… and sexually aggressive women… and tight wet women (I thought I’d beat Trouble to the punch[line])
Christine the Lioness uttered
“Western modernity has allowed us the luxury of confusing our gender roles.”
Or the luxury of choosing them as individuals. As I said, freedom of choice brings responsibility. The interest in finding away to avoid responsibility by handing over both responsibility and freedom of choice, certainly says something about the individual who wants to do that.
But that’s okay… some of us were born to lead and others were born to follow. I just don’t think that necessarily has to do with whether you were born with a penis or a vagina as much as it has to do with your individual ambition and drive.
Being all for women to choose whatever role they want to take, I obviously have to accept and encourage this submission as a possible choice if it truly makes them happy. My only worry about that is that having had many different relationship experiences myself, I can tell you that it’s incredibly fulfilling to find a man who is literally your best friend, your biggest supporter, someone who understands and respects you as the equal feminine half to his masculine half. And if there are women who have experienced that fulfillment in a relationship and still continue to choose submission, that’s all well and good. If they choose submission because they haven’t found that man yet and experienced true equality in a relationship, then I do feel sorry for them. But not that sorry, because like an alcoholic has the choice to take a drink or not, these women have the choice to not engage in this type of relationship.
Mael Diabolus the Groupie got all philosophical
“If they choose submission because they haven’t found that man yet and experienced true equality in a relationship, then I do feel sorry for them. But not that sorry, because like an alcoholic has the choice to take a drink or not, these women have the choice to not engage in this type of relationship.”
Submissive women who choose to wholly submit without exploring all the options are like alcoholics who can’t kick a bad habit? Once again, this logic doesn’t carry over very well to a lot of things in life. We all have visceral preferences about certain things we like or want, sometimes to the exclusion of considering other options. In other cases, yes, exploration is healthy, but I wouldn’t lump those who are sure of their path into the category of “pitiful, codependent junkies who don’t know what they’re missing.”
I do trust you have given yourself fully and completely as a slave to a man you love and admire, just so you could explore it fully to make an informed decision about what you want and like today?
Christine the Lioness up'n wrote this
I see some inherent problems in any person (man or woman) submitting themselves wholly to another person as a slave.
1. Whenever you give up your independent thought, you become easily exploited. It’s nice to believe that the men who are looking for “female slaves” are doing so because they want the women they’re with to be fulfilled in life, but I have a little trouble buying that. They want a slave. They want, like all “masters” throughout history, to have slaves do the things they aren’t willing to do– whether that’s a woman doing a man’s laundry or an African brought to the U.S. to pick cotton.
And men who can’t really take care of themselves and want a slave to do it, aren’t likely to put out the effort it would take to give of themselves and fulfill a woman. They are in that relationship for themselves.
I’m not sure what you mean by “inspiring loyal servitude.” If a guy pays a prostitute $100 for a blowjob, she’ll be inspired to give him a blow job. It doesn’t mean the woman is fulfilled in doing it– it just means the $100 served her need for money.
The word “inspire” is where things go south I think. You “inspire” someone to want to be with you by treating them with respect. Slaves, by sheer definition of the word, are not respected by masters. A submissive person doesn’t have the luxury of standing up for herself if she’s being mistreated– doing so would make her, well, not submissive. So therefore, to say that the men inspire servitude implies the men have some responsibility to the slave, which again, by definition, they don’t. So that part, I don’t really understand. You suggest that the women have free will to choose this lifestyle, but by choosing the lifestyle, they’re giving up free will and could possibly be exploited by a man who couldn’t care less about her, but is simply glad he found someone who won’t complain about being mistreated, or worse yet, leave him.
2. What happens to a woman who has devoted herself fully to being a slave and then her “master” decides to leave (via divorce, death, break up, whatever)? She has not done anything to help herself deal with that situation. Does she just quickly find whatever master she can who will enslave her? If she hasn’t worked or furthered her education because her previous master didn’t want her to, what does she do? I think we all have a responsibility to take care of ourselves and be self-sufficient people. For those who choose not to, I don’t feel too sorry for them when the master dumps them for someone else. They put themselves in that situation.
For me personally, I can see the problems with signing over my identity and free will to someone else (whether it be a man, or a religion, etc.) and I certainly don’t need to try out a slave/master relationship to realize that (which I realize was your point that the slave women don’t need to try balanced power relationships to know what they want). But just as I have outlined two problems with slave/master relationships, I’m not sure what the “problem” is with being a self-sufficient woman.
Mael Diabolus the Groupie added
“And men who cant really take care of themselves and want a slave to do it, arent likely to put out the effort it would take to give of themselves and fulfill a woman. They are in that relationship for themselves.”
Speaking from experience, I know I can certainly take care of myself. I earn more than enough to live the type of lifestyle I want, and I am tremendously fastidious about my environmental aesthetics, personal health and social responsibility…and yet I enjoy having a woman serve me as obediently as a slave. Many men who do likewise are sufficient and self-actualized. I suppose it’s more comforting to envision the slovenly wifebeating troll in the position of “master” when the entire idea of personal subjugation to a man is so abhorrent. This tv-ish image doesn’t jive very well with the reality-based model, however.
“Slaves, by sheer definition of the word, are not respected by masters.”
Call it a hunch, but I suspect many who live this way of life would disagree with that comment. I know I do. It takes tremendous selflessness, understanding and strength to submit fully. The mastery we advocate recognizes this and harnesses its power fully.
“What happens to a woman who has devoted herself fully to being a slave and then her master decides to leave (via divorce, death, break up, whatever)?”
Based upon our community ideals, she is provided for in all circumstances, ideally. Outside of this, it is impossible to speak for all individuals involved and what they personally imagine or prepare for. Since we advocate accountability and responsibility in a master, it would be against our doctrine for a man to “dump” his female off at the local shelter.
“But just as I have outlined two problems with slave/master relationships, Im not sure what the problem is with being a self-sufficient woman.”
We really have no wish to break out the black helicopters and declare a new world order for women. Humbledfemales.com has fulfilled a desire (the ethos of which is quite secular, btw) in many who wish to reject the increasingly popular trend of male bashing and gender bending in the media and social institutions of today. We offer an environment in which a woman can submit to a man without shame, scorn or mockery. We find these relationships create harmony between the sexes. Assumptions to the contrary by a wide and prevailing culture is why we have organized and supported each other.
Christine the Lioness mentioned
And of course harmony is created when one party isn’t allowed to voice opposition. That goes without saying, doesn’t it?
What happens to a woman who has devoted herself fully to being a slave and then her master decides to leave (via divorce, death, break up, whatever)?
“Based upon our community ideals, she is provided for in all circumstances, ideally. Outside of this, it is impossible to speak for all individuals involved and what they personally imagine or prepare for. Since we advocate accountability and responsibility in a master, it would be against our doctrine for a man to dump his female off at the local shelter. ”
Just because something is “against a doctrine” doesn’t mean it doesn’t happen. The problem here is that if it does happen, the woman who has not developed herself at the expense of submitting to a man, is kinda shit outta luck.
From an intellectual standpoint, it makes no sense to do that. But I guess if it happens to them, it’s their own fault.
We can of course disagree… but I think the most self-actualized men are not threatened by women or their degree of power in society or in a relationship. Self-actualized men don’t feel a need to respond to “male-bashing” or “gender-bending” because they’re not threatened by it. Self-actualized men retain their masculinity without needing to dominate anyone else and they know that their girlfriends, wives, etc. will stay with them not because she needs a man to submit to, but because he offers her the same things she offers him– companionship, sex, intellectual stimulation, loyalty, etc. That, of course, is my opinion and based on my 34 years of experience.
Hey, if you’d rather have a slave to take care of you so that you don’t have to as opposed to having a true partner in your life, that’s your thing and as long as no one is being exploited in that situation, then go for it. I can’t say that I’m not a a part of that prevailing culture that “assumes the contrary” because I am. But I applaud your efforts here to educate us more about the type of lifestyle you’re a part of.
Mara the Peacemaker added
Well, you all know I’m a firm advocate of CYA.
I cannot relate to wanting to be anyone’s slave in any way, shape or fashion. Hell, I can’t even be a slave to a god.
